Thu, 29 August 2024
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Kate Lessard, Lead Admin Evangelist at Salesforce. Join us as we chat get to know the newest member of the Admin Evangelist team and her journey through the Salesforce ecosystem. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Kate Lessard. Giving back to the Salesforce community Kate actually got her master’s in museum studies, so how did she get involved in Salesforce? “I started at a nonprofit in Denver, Colorado, and my first day on the job they asked me if I had ever heard of Salesforce,” she says, “and I said no and they said, ‘that’s okay but you’re in charge of it now!” One thing that really helped Kate, back when she was an accidental admin, was finding a mentor in the Salesforce community. That’s why she’s been so focused on giving back through programs like Super Moms, WITness Success, and Forcelandia. And now, she’s the newest member of the Admin Evangelist team. Working behind the scenes Kate takes the stage at tons of events but she also does work behind the scenes. For Forcelandia, she’s the Communications Lead, where she coordinates with speakers and makes sure they have all the information they need to be successful. The two main lessons she’s learned from this work are that no question is a dumb question and that you balance how you communicate information. For the first one, you don’t want to be the person who shows up in the wrong place when people are depending on you. For the latter, it’s important to realize that some people want one big communication with all of the facts and others prefer it broken down into smaller snippets. Kate is great Kate is excited to join the Admin Evangelist team and share how awesome it is to be a Salesforce Admin. “I’m really drawn to this because you get to still be technical and know how to do all the things,” she says, “but you also get to share the excitement behind them.” We think Kate is great, and if you want to meet her she’ll be presenting two sessions at Dreamforce this year. The first will be on why admins should learn dev fundamentals, and the other will be a security breakout session. Make sure to stop by and say hello! Podcast swag Learn more Admin Trailblazers Group Social Love our podcasts? Full show transcript Josh Birk:
Welcome, Salesforce admins. I'm Josh Birk, your guest host for this week. This week we're going to sit down with our brand new Lead Admin Evangelist, Kate Lessard, and get to know her a little bit better. So let's go straight to the tape.
All right. Today on the show we welcome Kate Lessard to talk about, well, mostly Kate Lessard, and the things that you're doing and some of the conferences you're going to be going to. So Kate, welcome to the show. Kate Lessard:
Thank you. Excited to be here and to talk about myself. Josh Birk:
It's all of our favorite topics. All right, so going into your earlier years, the first thing that I see in your early years is that you studied abroad in France. How did that come about? Kate Lessard:
Oh, my gosh, I was so lucky to be able to do that, and my study abroad sister is still one of my very best friends. I just went back and saw her this year. She just had a baby, so that was really cool. Yeah, I studied French in high school and just really loved the language and learning about France. And had the opportunity to go with my high school for a really short spring break-style program, and then went back in college. Josh Birk:
I got it. I did like that underneath you listed some of your activities that included gastronomy. Isn't that just a fancy word for saying French food? Kate Lessard:
Oh, yeah. We had a whole class that I got credit for in college on gastronomy, which was wine tasting and learning how to cook desserts and cheese tasting. Josh Birk:
I had to take PE. Kate Lessard:
I know it was the best class. Josh Birk:
Not fair. Okay. And then you went on to study art and eventually a master's in museum studies. Where did that interest come from, and what's it like studying museum studies? Kate Lessard:
Yeah, I've always loved art, and that was my favorite subject in school growing up, and especially when I went to France and got to see all these incredible artworks at some of their wonderful museums, decided that I really loved art, loved art history, and wanted to find a career in that. And museum study seemed like a cool way to be able to do that, to just be able to experience some of the best artworks in the world and be able to share that with others. So that was where I went into that kind of study path. Josh Birk:
Nice, nice. Well, and to put a cap on that, giving you an overview for the, and I'm going to try to get this right, the Pre-Raphaelite female muse in Juliet Margaret Cameron's, Idols of the King photographs. Did I get any of that pronounced correctly? Kate Lessard:
That was pretty close. Josh Birk:
Okay. Kate Lessard:
That was pretty good, yes. My master's thesis, the longest paper I will ever write in my life, hopefully. It was really fun to dive into some Pre-Raphaelite photography. It was one of the first actual times that photography was used as artwork and not just capturing the world around us. So that was really cool. Josh Birk:
That's really cool. That's very, very cool. Now, how did you move from French and art and photography into software and computer? Kate Lessard:
Oh, gosh, what a journey. So, with that museum studies and art background, I was working for some arts and culture organizations, nonprofits, and I started at a nonprofit in Denver, Colorado. And my first day on the job, they asked me if I had ever heard of Salesforce, and I said, "No." And they said, "That's okay, but you're in charge of it now." So accidental admin is my entry point. Josh Birk:
Gotcha. Nice, nice. And I mean, I assume you can talk about it, but your first gig was something about counterterrorism? Kate Lessard:
Yes, it was the Counterterrorism Education Learning Lab. They had an exhibit space, so that's why I was drawn to it initially, because there was this museum space that still exists in Denver that you can go into and learn about counterterrorism. But the main thing that we did was programs in training up event staff and volunteers about how they could recognize signs of terrorism. And if you see something, say something. Josh Birk:
Interesting. So in the age of 9/11, because museums, public spaces, all of this kind of stuff... It's fascinating how our public safety protocol has gotten above flight learning CPR. Kate Lessard:
Absolutely. Yeah. Your volunteer job is more in-depth these days. Josh Birk:
Right. Now, before we get into your current job, let's talk a little bit about your vast experience in volunteering. We'll start with: How did you get involved with Trailblazer mentoring? Kate Lessard:
Oh, gosh. When I was an accidental admin, I was so lucky to find a mentor in the community, and as I got more advanced in my career and was able to be like, "Oh, my gosh, I have kind of crossed this threshold of needing someone to mentor me," which I guess we always need someone to mentor us, but I felt like I was in a space where I could actually start to give back to others, and that's when I joined the mentorship program. Josh Birk:
Nice. And we had Heather Black on the DevPod talking about Supermums. Tell me a little bit about that program. Kate Lessard:
Supermums is such a cool organization. They are based in the UK, and they actually have a Salesforce class that their students go through, and they have these modules that they work through. And the mentors are kind of like, I almost think of it as like a teaching assistant, because you're not just there to provide career guidance. You are also there to help them develop their Salesforce skills and help them through the training classes. Josh Birk:
Nice. Nice. And I know there are similar programs, and they find that it's amazing how much that increases the success of not only gaining the knowledge but knowing what to do when you walk into an office and you have to have an interview for it. Kate Lessard:
Absolutely. And being able to have a portfolio of work that you can show someone like, "Hey, I've actually done this; I've built this." You can see it live. Josh Birk:
Now you've had a lot of experiences, both on the stage but also behind the scenes for events. You've been a community group leader; you've worked with WITness Success; you've worked with one of my favorites, Forcelandia. First of all, what brought you into that side? Because that is very different from mentoring; it's very different from educational; it's very organizational program management, working with people. What attracted you to that kind of volunteering? Kate Lessard:
Yeah, very different, but also a lot of the same group of people. And so, when I was mentoring and becoming involved in the community, I met several people that were involved with the Denver Women in Technology group as well as the Denver Admin group when I was living out in Colorado. And they kind of folded me into WITness Success and were really welcoming and started off just volunteering with the registration table, really enjoying the conference itself, and wanted to just be part of making it happen. It was such a good experience for me, both networking wise and learning wise. Josh Birk:
Got it. And speaking of learning, what are some lessons you've learned from those experiences? Kate Lessard:
Oh, my goodness. Well, with Forcelandia, I am the communications lead, which means that I am in charge of basically tracking down speakers, communicating with them, making sure that they have all of the information that they need to be successful. And the things that I have learned that I use in just my life project management philosophy is that no question is a dumb question. If you have a question, you should always ask it because you don't want to be the one that doesn't have the answer and isn't where you're supposed to be, especially at a conference when people are depending on you. And also to balance communication, figuring out how people respond. Do they want one big communication with all the facts? Is it helpful to break it down into littler snippets? Just figuring out the way that different people work and how they absorb information has been something that's been really helpful. Josh Birk:
Love it. Now talking about your roles, moving on to the stage, and also the skills that you were just talking about. Now you're only about two weeks into the gig, but first of all, welcome to the team. Kate Lessard:
Thank you. Happy to be here. Josh Birk:
What is your new job, and what's the one sentence or when people ask you, "Wait, what does an evangelist do?" What do you tell them? Kate Lessard:
My new job is Lead Admin Evangelist at Salesforce, and evangelists get to be out in the community sharing how awesome it is to be a Salesforce admin and the very cool things that we get to do. So I'm really drawn to this because you get to still be technical and have to understand and know how to do the things, but you also get to share the excitement behind them and be able to share that with others and get them excited and doing all of the really awesome things that you can do as a Salesforce admin. Josh Birk:
Love it. Is there any early content that you're working on that you can share with us right now? Kate Lessard:
Oh, absolutely. I will be at Dreamforce this year presenting two sessions and also kind of helping some other speakers get ready for their sessions on the admin track. Josh Birk:
So if you're on the admin track, you might be hearing from Kate pretty soon. Now let's go ahead and dive into those two sessions. Now, let's start with the one I'm actually a little familiar with because you presented a version of it at Forcelandia and you talk about jumping into the shoes of a developer and then some of the lessons you learned from that. What enticed you to try to jump into the shoes as a developer? Kate Lessard:
A few years ago, I was at a point where I was feeling really good in my admin career and didn't know what the next step was. And I feel like at the time, you were an admin or you were a developer, there was not the amazing options that we have right now to take our career in. They just weren't as widely publicized. And so I was like, "Oh, I guess a developer is my next step." And so I went through RAD Women, which was an incredible training program. I learned probably more in those few weeks than I've learned in much of my life and got to the end of it and realized that the number one lesson I learned was that I didn't want to be a developer. And that there's no such thing as being just an admin, which I think was the big lesson, that you can take skills, and you can continue to learn from different subject areas, and they can just make you a better admin. And that was a really big lesson. Josh Birk:
Yeah, because that was my follow-up question. So how long did the developer's life stay for you? Kate Lessard:
Oh, yeah, that was shattered pretty quickly. Still very dev curious; I am very fascinated by the things that developers do, and now I have the language to be able to speak and understand, which was one of those really important things to learn. Josh Birk:
And I think it's something that's going to become more common because the era you're talking about is the one before we started using phrases like admineloper, which I have been on the record of saying is both my favorite word and also my least favorite word. It's my favorite word because it's like it proves the need. We wouldn't throw that part together if we didn't have to describe people who had to carry both roles, but also, as an English major, it just makes my ears ring a little bit every time I say it. But I also feel like admins are being confronted with... As flow expands into being more parity, have more feature parity with APEX. What I've heard a lot is it's not the exercises that programmers go to when it comes to streaming logic together, but understanding what a variable is and what are these nouns that we're working with. Gives a good framework for using a lot of the more advanced features in flow. Kate Lessard:
Absolutely. And it just kind of lifts up the curtain. One of my developer friends always likes to say, it drives her crazy when people say that "Dev work is magic," because it's not magic. Josh Birk:
It's not magic. Kate Lessard:
It's logic. Josh Birk:
Actually, one of my old school jokes was when people found out that I'd gone from English and psychology and I got into computers, and they're like, "Yeah, but you were never very good at math." And I'm like, "Of course I'm not good at math; that's why I have a computer. I'm good at logic; I've got a computer that can do all the math for me. I don't need that." Kate Lessard:
That is great. I love it. Josh Birk:
Now tell me a little bit about your second session. Kate Lessard:
Second session is going to be a breakout on security. Josh Birk:
Oh. Kate Lessard:
So we're still working out what exactly that's going to look like. So this is just a teaser, of course, but going to talk about building a security culture at your organization. Josh Birk:
Oh, I like that. I like that. Don't worry. You still have about 30 days, so plenty of time. Kate Lessard:
Thank goodness. Josh Birk:
To get some slides together. And then I will be seeing you at Mile High Dreamin'. Tell me a little bit about the talk that you're going to present there. Kate Lessard:
Yes, this is one of my favorite talks because it's something that I've used in my own life. I will be talking about five tips to ace your interview. So, whether you're talking to HR, a hiring manager, doing a technical assessment, five tips that are going to help you land that next step, dream job. Josh Birk:
Nice, nice. Now, in fact, I'm going to be completely honest here. I'm like, I knew I had Kate on the DevPod, and I'm like, "Wait, what did we talk about?" And so I went back, and it was your case study, like how to write a good case study that you had presented at Forcelandia. So you've presented a lot of different topics over the years, and this is always a kind of a mean podcast trick, because I'm asking you to pick the favorite of all your children. But out of all your presentations, do you have one that kind of stands out that's like that was super fun to do? Kate Lessard:
Oh, gosh. I think that changes year over year. Josh Birk:
Sure. Kate Lessard:
I get really connected to one each year, it feels like. Josh Birk:
Yeah. Kate Lessard:
So right now I would say the Why Admins Should Learn Dev Fundamentals or Why Admins Should Learn Dev Fundamentals is probably my favorite. I think that's the most relevant- Josh Birk:
Got it. Kate Lessard:
-To my life. And so, that's the current favorite, but ask me next year. Josh Birk:
And I will tell you, as the life of an evangelist, chasing after the next shiny object is actually a very good habit to have. So you're on the right track. All right, well, if people want to hear about the interview tips, they'll have to visit you in Denver for Mile High Dreamin'. For the other stuff, we'll see you at Dreamforce. Kate, I have one final question for you. As a yoga instructor, what is your response when people ask, "Why do yoga?" Kate Lessard:
Oh, my gosh, I actually don't know that anyone has ever asked me that. Josh Birk:
Really? Kate Lessard:
Which is funny. Why not do yoga? Josh Birk:
There you go. Kate Lessard:
I love to tell people that... People have this whole concept that yoga is this huge big thing, and I like to tell them to take it back a step. And if you're in class, if you're breathing, you're doing yoga. Josh Birk:
Nice. Kate Lessard:
And breathing is good for everybody. Josh Birk:
Right. Yes. I love that. I love that. All righty, Kate. Well, thank you so much for the time and information. It was a lot of fun. Kate Lessard:
Yeah, see you soon. See you in Denver. Josh Birk:
See you in Denver.
I want to thank Kate for the great conversation and information, and as always, I want to thank you for listening. If you want to learn more about this show and being an admin in general, go on over to admin.salesforce.com. Thanks again, everybody, and we'll talk to you next week.
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Thu, 22 August 2024
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Lisa Tulchin, Senior Curriculum Developer at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about user learning styles and how to use them to create better training sessions. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Lisa Tulchin. Choose the right learning style for you on Trailhead As a Senior Curriculum Developer for Salesforce, Lisa spends a lot of time thinking about user learning styles. That’s why there are two paths to learning new Salesforce skills. You can use Trailhead to go at your own pace or sign up for Trailhead Academy to work in an instructor-led group setting. The best way to choose between Trailhead and Trailhead Academy is to think about what’s worked for you in the past. When have you been able to learn something quickly, and when have you struggled? Remember that it doesn’t have to be an either/or decision. You can always see how far you get working through recommended badges and trails, but consider Trailhead Academy as an option if you get stuck. Breaking through fear in user training Fear can be a major barrier to learning, and it’s often what’s behind resistance to a new process. That’s why Lisa recommends starting your training sessions by “hugging the elephant.” Acknowledge that, yes, this new process is tricky while also explaining how it will make their lives easier. What makes sense to you may not work for other user learning styles—some people want to run down a checklist and others need more context. “Kids are a lot more comfortable making mistakes than we are as adults,” Lisa says, “saying, ‘I don’t know,’ is one of the scariest things for adults to admit.” In any user training, make sure give your users explicit permission to ask questions so no one gets left behind. Best practices for planning user trainings When she’s writing a new training, Lisa tries to separate what information her users need to know from what would be nice for them to know. She calls it the 80/20 rule. Generally, if you can get your users to 80% with a training, they have what they need to do their job. You can fill in the other 20% as you go. Another user training hack is to break complicated things down into manageable tasks to make them easier to learn. Lisa explains that our brains tend to remember 5-7 chunks of information at a time (for example, phone numbers or ZIP codes). So if you’re writing out a task and the individual steps get into the double digits, you might want to break it down differently so it’s easier to remember. Lisa has tons of great tips in this episode for how to keep up with your own learning and take advantage of the resources out there from Salesforce, so be sure to take a listen. And don’t forget to subscribe for more from the Salesforce Admins Podcast. Podcast swag Learn more Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike Gerholdt:
This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we were talking to Lisa Tulchin about learning and how you can be a better learner, and also, as a Salesforce admin, how you can help teach and educate and drive user adoption with your user. I've known Lisa for over a decade now. She's a senior curriculum developer at Trailhead. She's done both in-person and self-paced learning. She's created both. Mike Gerholdt:
So I feel like she's a real expert on this, and we cover a lot because I had a lot of great conversations at TrailblazerDX about learning, and I know admins are always learning, so that's why I wanted to cover that. Now, before we get into the episode, I want to be sure that you're following the Salesforce Admins Podcast on iTunes or Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. That way, when a new episode drops like this one, and it's amazing on learning on Thursday mornings, it's immediately on your phone. So be sure you're following that, and then a new episode will drop. So with that, let's get to, this is such a fun episode, let's get to Lisa Tulchin. So, Lisa, welcome to the podcast. Lisa Tulchin:
Thanks. It's such a privilege to be here. Mike Gerholdt:
Well, we've known each other for a while, but I am unleashing you to the Salesforce ecosystem because I feel like I've secretly held this decade of awesomeness of knowing you and talking about learning. That's what we're going to talk about today, in case you didn't listen in the intro. But Lisa, let's level set because I've had the privilege of working with you and seeing you teach, and create, and do, and that's why I wanted to have you on the podcast. But let's start with what you do at Salesforce and how you got here. Lisa Tulchin:
I am a senior curriculum developer, which means I help write content for the product education team. I have been focusing almost exclusively on instructor-led training. So when you sign up through Trailhead Academy or one of the bootcamps before an event to be in a live or virtual classroom with the person. So that's what I have been focusing on, but the group has expanded over the past year, and I will no longer be focusing just on that type of content. Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah. And so if you think about it, what's great about Salesforce is we have lots of different methods of learning. Lisa Tulchin:
Indeed. Mike Gerholdt:
And to hover around, I've seen you do instructor-led training and we have that. We also have Trailhead, or what'd you call it? Self-paced learning. Lisa Tulchin:
Yeah, so Trailhead is one example of self-paced, and I have in my past at Salesforce as a full-time employee, because I've been here three years, I have actually written a few trails. I may start writing them again. We are still figuring out exactly the roles, but that's just one example of what we'd like to say self-paced. And self-paced really means that you, as an individual, go to the resource and, I guess, take it in, read it, test it on your own timing. The difference with if you're in a classroom, you're following the agenda with the instructor, and you have to do things in a certain order, in a certain pace. But self-paced, and Trailhead is one example. Slack, and Tableau, or other resources that have their own training repositories that you can also take in at your own timing. So that's why we use the term self-paced. Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, no, it makes sense. Otherwise, I was just going to call it instructor-led and not instructor-led. Lisa Tulchin:
Exactly. Mike Gerholdt:
Like hot dog, not hot dog, right? Lisa Tulchin:
Exactly. Mike Gerholdt:
Okay, so I feel like here is the question everybody thinks I'm going to ask, and I'm not because everybody would ask, Okay, Lisa, well, then which is better, instructor-led or self-paced? And I'm not going to ask you that question because I think it's the wrong question to ask. I think what the right question to ask is how, as a Salesforce administrator getting into the ecosystem, do I figure out if in-person or self-paced learning is best for me? Lisa Tulchin:
I like that question a lot. Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, that's why I'm asking it. Lisa Tulchin:
Yeah, no, I really like that question a lot. The hardest thing with radio, of course, is that people can't see me thinking literally when I think, I always think my face shows the wheels turning, but I have to remind myself that you all can't see that. So I'm thinking through- Mike Gerholdt:
You're envisioning. Lisa Tulchin:
Visualize Lisa looking away, and the [inaudible 00:05:01] the hamster in her brain is running on that wheel. Mike Gerholdt:
It's smoking. Lisa Tulchin:
Yeah, exactly. I think you have to stop and have an honest talk with yourself. What have you found for yourself in the past? We're all adults going into this scenario for the most part, and I'd like to think that by the time we get to that stage, we understand a little bit about ourselves and how we take information in. So for example, if you're just starting out in the ecosystem, not even for example, I'd say the first thing you should do if you haven't already is actually go to trailhead.com and sign up for an account. Lisa Tulchin:
It's free to do that, and you automatically then have an enormous number of resources at your fingertip just through that site. There is Trailhead, the slightly gamified, self-paced learning that's available to you for Trailhead resources. There's also Trailhead Academy, which are the classes. But there also is the community, and so your peers. So I think that's one way that you can explore and test out waters. If you're thinking to yourself, I think I could do this on my own. Well, if you log in and you see how you feel after taking a couple of what they call modules, or trails, or badges, then that may be a sign that you're good to go. But if you're doing this and you're thinking I need a little structure, then you immediately do have resources because you can sign up for ILT, but you also have the community. Lisa Tulchin:
So you can go there, maybe find a local user group through that site, and ask questions of other people there. So I think that's the first thing is have an honest talk with yourself. See if you can figure out for yourself what your learning style is. I personally often need that instructor. I need that person in the room either live or virtually helping talk me through things, honestly, helping me keep focused on what I'm actually doing. There are other resources there. I sometimes need a map. Lisa Tulchin:
I like to have a map and being able to think. I also need to be goal-oriented. So for me, credentials were a natural way to think about things. And even if you're not going to study and earn a credential, there is a section on the site for credentials, and they have, for example, if you were just starting out in the ecosystem, the Salesforce Associate Certification might be a really good starting point, and they have recommended badges and trails to take. So that's what I mean there's some guidance, even if you don't think that cert is for you, you could look at the map to get that cert and follow that along, and take information in. Mike Gerholdt:
No, I think, I mean, you're so spot on. I often see a lot of people in the community ask a question assuming someone else has the answer, and I really think a lot of people forget they have the answer inside them. They know what way they learn best. They just sometimes are looking for validation in that. Listening to your answer, I was thinking back to when I had to tackle something big, I really needed that in class sitting next to somebody with an instructor so that I was focused. And it's not that I can't focus at home or at work, it's that I think you probably know this, people sometimes try to do a trailhead module and answer email and maybe watch a webinar, and it's like, stop. You can't get away with that in class. Lisa Tulchin:
You can't. Mike Gerholdt:
So that's what I find. That's what I find. Lisa Tulchin:
Yeah, and I mean, the other benefit is finding a local Salesforce user group can also be super helpful because I think typically they have regular meetings at a certain date and time, and so I find there's a lot of talk about what they call the beginner's mindset and how we all have to have the beginner's mindset, and I think it's really hard and it's easy for us to talk about, but truly being beginners, it's scary. You don't know something, you don't know what you don't know. For me, there's that fear of messing up, and that's definitely something I've learned like teaching adults, and I have also taught kids or, yeah, kids, they were actually kids, and kids are a lot more comfortable making mistakes than we are as adults. Mike Gerholdt:
Why do you think that is? Lisa Tulchin:
I think part of that is that feeling of, as adults, we're supposed to know everything. If we followed a traditional path, we've gone to college, we've maybe gone on to graduate school, and we're just supposed to know. You're supposed to be able to move and function in an environment. And saying I don't know, is one of the scariest things I think for adults to admit. Lisa Tulchin:
And that's one reason why I just encourage a community and peers because there typically are themes for meetings where people go and either someone's presenting or sharing what they know or everyone's there asking questions, and sometimes it's just being in a room and having somebody else ask a question that you've been worrying about. It almost makes you relax a little, feel somewhat more secure. And that's one reason why I would recommend that. Now, I say that as an ambivert, as someone who is very uncomfortable in situations where I don't know people. So it's actually quite challenging for me. It's easy for me to say, go join the local user group. Actually, showing up to that first meeting of a user group is really hard for me. Lisa Tulchin:
But once I settle in an environment and I can feel more comfortable, I am very outgoing, but that's what that ambivert talks to, but that first getting me out the door. So if you're sitting here and you're listening to me talk and saying, Lisa, you are crazy. There's no way I'm ever going to join a user group, that's talking to people I don't know. I get it. And that's why, in a way, there's a virtual user group, people can chat. I think every cloud, for the most part, has its own section of the community where people can ask questions and help each other. And as I said, we have all these self-paced environments where you can little by little take on information and take it in without having, if you're truly introverted, you don't need to interact with anybody else. Mike Gerholdt:
So flip the coin a little bit from us learning to admins teaching and maybe even user group leaders doing some of this birds of a feather or instructor walking people through stuff. What in your experience in both you've said you've taught children, you've taught adults, what in your experience really resonates when you're trying to walk some adults through new technology or new functionality and have them learn? Lisa Tulchin:
There are a lot of different words for this, but yeah, I was thinking about how I was going to answer you while you were asking the question. I came up with three or four different ways of saying the same thing. When we first worked together, it was WIIFM, what's in it for me? I think now they talk a lot about personas or jobs to be done, so I'm throwing these out there in case folks listening have heard any of these. The really important thing for adults is that when they go into training, or if you're trying to think of developing training for them, the training speaks very specifically to what they need to know to get the job done. Lisa Tulchin:
When you're teaching kids, you can teach them almost any topic, and they'll be much more trusting about, I don't see the why, but I understand you're telling me, and therefore I need to know. But with adults, it is so critical that they understand the why am I sitting here or why am I watching this video? Or why am I reading this Java? I think figure out the why, and everything should hopefully flow a lot easier from that why. For one thing, you'll have immediate buy-in from the people that you're working with, because if they don't understand the why, they tune you out. Lisa Tulchin:
If you have that why you have their attention. I'm not saying they're going to be eager, willing, and able when they're sitting in the room, but they're going to be more likely to be behind you or stay with you as you go through it. And it also will help them remember what you're training them. It can be overwhelming to sit down and learn a new technology. Now, Salesforce, as we both know, has evolved and is constantly, I think, improving what they call the user experience, the way that you as an end user take in the system, but it's still scary, and new, and challenging. So the more that you get what you need to know in the moment that you're needing to know it and not getting a lot of extra stuff, that's another thing that's really important in designing training. Another thing people may have heard or some folks throw around is the 80/20 approach, which is that training should focus on the 80% of what people need to know. Lisa Tulchin:
So dividing the focus of the training to be almost exclusively on what they need to know 80% of the time, and maybe if you have time, have an extra session or just provide an additional resource for what they need to know 20% of the time. Part of that is I've learned a lot about the science behind the way we take information in, the way we remember things, and that's another reason to emphasize what they need to know now as opposed to the nice to have for that couple times a year. I mean, think about it, right? If you're a salesperson and you're learning how to use Salesforce, what do you need to know? You need to know how to enter leads. Lisa Tulchin:
If you're doing sales cloud, you need to probably know how to do leads so that you can track potential sales. And then you need to know how to create probably an opportunity so you can track an actual sale and maybe how to add products to that opportunity, but that's the bulk of your time, right? Creating leads, creating opportunities, tracking activity around those two records. But you may not close, depending on the type of business you do, you may not close that many opportunities in a year. It may be a lot of nurturing. So focusing training on closing opportunities may not be as important. That's just one example. Mike Gerholdt:
No, that's a really good example. So here's why I was looking forward to this podcast. So can I take those two principles and turn them on their head and ask you, do those two apply, and I'll regurgitate those, when admins are trying to learn Salesforce through Trailhead? And those two principles I'm pointing at are they may or may not understand why, and they're trying to focus on the 20% versus the 80%. Lisa Tulchin:
So that's a really good question because having from the admin perspective, there's just so much to learn, and it can be overwhelming. I think, honestly, what I had to do, and I'm trying to remember when I was first starting it out, I broke things down. Instead of looking at the whole 100%. What I did was I looked at, now I admit, because I've never sat in the job, I've never sat in the chair as an admin. I was looking at the admin certification, and I was looking at the breakdown of the exam and looking at what the breakdown of the exam was and what had the most emphasis in the exam. And then I was thinking, well, that's probably either what's the hardest or, I mean, I probably was going about it the wrong way from that point of ignorance, but I felt like that's most of what admins have to do. And so for me, I would probably break it down and focus section by section of that. Mike Gerholdt:
I think that's good philosophy. I mean, I was kind of sneaking that question at you because I feel like it's one thing to give people advice on how to instruct, but then it's also on, does that also apply to us learning as well? So you tackled it well. How does some of this work? As we both, I mean, we focus on learning and being new, and that applies throughout the years, but is there anything you think of if you are going into perhaps training an older set of users, and so there's median age, obviously companies try to hire for diversity, but some companies have older users, and should you think about how to frame things differently or if you are in that set, is there a way to think through maybe because you teased, and I'd love to know more about the science of what you read on learning? Lisa Tulchin:
Oh, yeah. So there are a couple of things popping into my mind with that. One is that there has been a lot written, and I've only read a little bit about generationally differences in learning. So that Gen X, Y, and Z, millennials, I'm not sure exactly the lineup, they learn differently, and the younger employees are having grown up in a much more digital first age, take information in differently. So if you're training older employees, there are a couple of things that come to mind. One is my feeling, oh my goodness, I may be approaching older employee "as a group." But the other thing is that try to be sensitive to what you may encounter as resistance may actually be fear. Lisa Tulchin:
There can be a sense with new, technology in particular, a fear of I know how to do things really, really well in the previous system, method, whatever you want to call it. This is something new, and I don't know how to do my job well. And the reality is there is age discrimination and so you could be starting to spiral into a fear cycle. What if I can't catch on? What if I can't do my job? What if I can't "wrap my hands" around this new technology? Am I going to lose my job? So I think there's a level of that that could be behind what you might be perceiving as resistance with older employees that you wouldn't necessarily be receiving from younger employees. For one thing, they're closer to being in that true beginner's mindset where they don't know things and are taking things in all the time. They're less likely to be as insecure about their job and potentially a little more open to systems changing. Lisa Tulchin:
So that's one thing that pops into my head. And I have gone and I've trained people on how to use a CRM system when the previous one was paper, and there was a range of employees in the room; they did tend to be older, and there was a lot of resistance to that. So it could also depend on the shift that you're making. If you're going from one online system to another online system, it likely would have less resistance. I kept emphasizing, you're just carrying around an iPad, you're not carrying around stacks and stacks and files and files. Look how much easier this is. And a lot of them though still were like, but everything's in my head. Now you're making me write it down. So I think the reality is change is hard, no matter what. I think it's just as someone who might be in charge of training others, being open to the fact that what you may be seeing as intractable resistance could actually be a fear-based response. Yeah. Mike Gerholdt:
One thing you said, which is the biggest thing in all of learning, which is change is hard, right? Anytime you're learning something, you're learning something because something is changing. One, and I believe you were part of this project with me, I've always tried to really make it resonate with admins. Hey, when you're rolling out a new app, make sure you're paying attention to all the other changes that are going on in the organization. Because I know the project that we worked on together, we had a big change in the organization on top of a technical change. And you can be focused on, well, we're just rolling out Salesforce, right? Oh, but there's organizational structure, and there's a whole bunch of other changes going on. I think it's one thing, it can be a little hard maybe for an admin to wrap their head around organizational change, although they should. But looking at yourself individually. Is there something to be said for taking an inventory in the amount of change that's going on in your life while you're trying to learn something? Does that affect how you gain your knowledge? Lisa Tulchin:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's a really good point, which is that, and actually something popped into my head, sorry, when you were talking about how when we worked together, there was a big change, not just a technology, is that you may encounter resistance to training people on a new technology because the new technology could be the convenient scapegoat for a lot of the anxiety and fear around change that is happening. So sometimes it's good to just open things up or just acknowledge and be open to the fact. I was in a meeting with someone recently, who I loved the way they opened it. They just opened it with a phrase that they said they'd been taught, which is, "Let's start off by hugging the elephant," was what they said. Mike Gerholdt:
Oh, I've never heard that. Lisa Tulchin:
Isn't it wonderful? I loved that, and a picture of a baby elephant and people hugging it. But it was really, let's start out by hugging the elephant, which is to just acknowledge upfront that that elephant in the room. We're not going to tiptoe around a topic. So it could be as simple as opening up a training with, Hey, I know there's a lot going on, let's just acknowledge that right out and maybe give five minutes for people to just talk about it and get it off their chest. And then they'll feel better. They'll have cleansed the air a little bit, and you can move into, okay, let's focus on how the system works. But I've noticed myself personally, yeah, if a lot of things are happening and I'm under stress, I could have more trouble focusing, which means that as a learner being in a classroom, it's harder for me to take things in if things aren't paced appropriately, which is a great way for me to seg into the science of learning. Mike Gerholdt:
Nice segue. Lisa Tulchin:
I took that, and I brought it back where I wanted to go five minutes ago, whatever it was, that was so subtle. So from a science perspective, there's this feeling of, and as a curriculum developer, we talk about the need to what we call chunk things out. So it's break things down. And now, admittedly, my research is a little outdated on this, but when I was first learning it, they talked about no more than five or seven things in any given segment. And I know sometimes, especially with software training, it's really hard because, in order to do a task, you may actually have to do a certain number of steps maybe. But I really try to break training down by tasks. So if I have an exercise, I'll have broken the exercise down into tasks, and if I've written a task out and it's more than a certain number of steps within that task, that's usually assigned to me that this might be too big a chunk. And I go back, and I see, do I have to break this down further? Lisa Tulchin:
And every exercise, I should say, is pinned to a scenario. And so it all goes back to the scenario. Okay, in this exercise, it's usually a scenario. Either you are an admin or you're observing an admin who has something to do and they're trying to do A, B, C, and I'm like, oh, well, maybe A, B, and C is too much, too big a chunk right now, and it has to really be A, B, or maybe even just A, and that's the way I approach it because you need to only give so much information to a person, and then you need to shift gears and maybe you need to talk about something else for a while, let them process. It's another reason why a lot of training with systems is around watch me do it. Now you do it. We don't always have the time. I always wish we were given more time for training, but you may not always have the time. So it may be introduce a concept and then have people walk through, but just make sure you're not having them walk through too much at one given time. Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, training, unfortunately, is always like the landscaping when you're building a new house. It's the last thing and you have no money left, and it just ends up being here's a flower from the hardware store. Lisa Tulchin:
I know, I really wish- Mike Gerholdt:
Congratulations. Lisa Tulchin:
I really wish we'd be able to have the full landscape architect at all times. Mike Gerholdt:
The whole thing. The whole thing, the drawing. Everything. Lisa Tulchin:
Tear the yard out, rebuild it entirely. That's what I feel. I mean, that's one reason why it's nice that there is a resource such as Trailhead, and I haven't even talked about it, but when you onboard as a Salesforce customer, there are other resources that are available to you or to companies and to customers, especially if they're on a success plan. There are whole libraries and resources available to them. So I would say, as an admin, find out is your company, do they have a success plan? And if so, which plan and what resources are available to you? And if you have them, take advantage of them. Some of them are one-on-one coaching, I think for Premier. So you have all these resources, and I would say take advantage of all of the resources that are available to you to help you learn and then help you get everyone else working towards using the system effectively. Mike Gerholdt:
One thing I thought of as we bring this around to a close. One thing you do that is exactly what admins do, I mean, you do a lot, is approach a brand new feature and have to learn it because you have to write training for it. I mean, you have to write Trailhead modules and all kinds of stuff, and admins maybe don't necessarily have to train somebody else on that, but they have to learn it themselves. I would love to know, based on your experience, when a new feature comes down into your queue and you're like, I got to write a module on this and I got to learn this feature, what's your approach? Lisa Tulchin:
I personally might be more of a maximalist than a minimalist. Mike Gerholdt:
Please explain. Lisa Tulchin:
I want to get my hands on all the things and digest them to try to figure out what is the essence there. Now I admit, Mike, I am learning this not because I'm going to have to use it every day in my job. I'm learning this because I want to understand the full picture in order to be able to distill it down to its basic essence. And so my objective might be a little bit different. I would say that the task is easier if it's something that is new to me because there will be resources that are out there for me to take in. When it's net new, the challenge really can be trying to figure out how something works when there aren't as many resources, but I would definitely say being part of the ecosystem, stay plugged in, keep an ear out for the announcements that happen at the regular events such as the TDX, the conference that just happened. Lisa Tulchin:
Big announcements will be made at Dreamforce and at TDX. There are also what we call world tours, which are events that take place in different cities around the world. I know that it's not possible for everyone to attend these, but there is the Salesforce Plus website, and a lot of the keynotes and major presentations from all of these events are available for free streaming. And actually, I think Salesforce Plus has other admin-focused resources that could be amazing right there. And especially if you're a visual or an auditory learner, and by that I mean watching something or hearing something that could be a really good resource because you can listen to the announcements and then they have sessions that focus on different aspects of different clouds, and so you can listen in and hear announcements and sharing about resources. Lisa Tulchin:
The Salesforce blog is another good site because there'll be articles published there talking about new resources, and that's kind of how I get my information for net new content. And then they release webinars, and I know as an employee, I have access to all of them, but keep an ear out for resources such like that because they'll share all the changes that are coming and there'll be demos of how it works. Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, no, there's a ton out there. You very much are a maximalist. Lisa Tulchin:
I know, man. I know. I'm not saying do it all, I'm saying pick and choose, right? Mike Gerholdt:
Thank you, Lisa, for being on the podcast. I appreciate you coming by and sharing resources, and helping us understand the world of learning. Again, you know what's funny? Is if you've listened to this podcast for a while, you know how many times we keep mentioning know the why. And I've done podcasts with Kevin Richardson on the five whys. I've worked with the Trailhead team on understanding the why. It really always keeps coming back to the why. But I will tell you this, listening to this episode, I learned something, which was the whole point, but it really sunk into me. The fear could equal resistance when you're doing training. I run into that where people are super resistant, and it was out of fear, not out of the willingness to learn. So I think that's interesting. I really hope you got something out of this. I loved the way Lisa approached training and talking about five to seven steps. Mike Gerholdt:
I feel like that was super important. So I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you did, can you do me a favor? Share it on social. Share it to one person, maybe send it to a friend that could be doing training. I promise you, you have to know somebody that's doing training. That, or at a user group, you could share it and be like, Hey, listen to this great podcast about training. And I learned about five to seven steps and the 80/20 rule, but you got to listen for the 80/20 rule. And of course, if you're looking for more great resources, just check out the show notes. Also, everything is at admin.salesforce.com, including in the show notes a transcript of this episode. And of course, we will post this to the Admin Trailblazer community, which is one of the plethora of places that you can go and ask questions and help other Salesforce admins learn. So, of course, until next time, I'll see you in the cloud.
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Thu, 15 August 2024
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Ella Marks, Senior Marketing Manager at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about the keys to creating an effective presentation, how to prep, and how to create a strong ending. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Ella Marks. Core principles to prep any presentation We’re starting the last quarter of the year and that means it’s presentation season. Whether it’s presenting about the work we did last year or trying to get budget for next year, creating an effective presentation is a core skill for Salesforce Admins. That’s why I’m so excited to bring Ella Marks on the pod. She’s presented on some of Salesforce’s biggest stages, like Dreamforce and multiple World Tours. So I wanted to hear her tips for how to put together a great presentation. The cool thing is that no matter the format or venue, Ella uses the same core principles to prep for every presentation. 1. Who is your audience? Ella’s first step is to identify the audience that you’re presenting for. Who’s in the room? What do they already know, and what are you going to teach them? Your content is going to be very different if you’re presenting to a room full of admins versus a room full of new users. If you don’t know exactly who’s in the audience or what their level of expertise is, just ask them. For example, “Raise your hand if this topic is new to you.” In general, it makes your presentation more engaging if there’s a little bit of back-and-forth with the audience. 2. Make an outline and blue box your slides The next step is to make an outline. Ella recommends starting by making a big list of everything you could possibly say about the presentation topic. Then you can start moving things around, whittling it down, and picking some themes. All of this helps you decide on a call to action. When she’s ready to start creating her slide deck, Ella uses a technique called “blue boxing” to make a rough draft. Essentially, you use blue boxes to rough out what you’re going to put on each slide. So a slide might have three blue boxes that say: -
Title about why this is important right now -
Text of the most important point I’m going to say -
Image to illustrate the point We’re trying to sketch out just enough to see how the presentation flows as a whole. Look for a balance of slides with more text and slides with more visuals because that variation will keep your audience engaged. That way, we’re not spending time looking for the right image or writing the perfect title until we’re sure we need it. 3. Nail the ending Conclusions are always tricky. Ella recommends asking yourself three questions: -
After my presentation, how do you want them to feel? -
After my presentation, what do you want them to think? -
After my presentation, what do you want them to do? These are your three goals, and the secret to nailing your ending is to address them throughout the presentation. Every slide should be aimed at answering one of these questions so that, by the end, the conclusion feels inevitable. Ella has lots more great tips for creating effective presentations, including how to prep with a group and the importance of a good pump-up song, so be sure to take a listen. And be sure to subscribe so you’ll never miss an episode. Podcast swag Learn more Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike Gerholdt: So we're halfway through August, and for many of us, that's the start or getting real close to the start of the last quarter of the year, which means we're doing a lot of presenting, either presenting to show our work, what we've got done for this year, presenting to get budget for next year as admins for what we'd like to do or, if you're like me and a few of my colleagues, going to world tours, going to events, going to community events, and presenting. Presenting, presenting, presenting is at the heart of a lot of what Salesforce admins do. Mike Gerholdt: So this week on the podcast, I pulled in Ella Marks to talk us through and give us some tips on building phenomenal presentations in the art of presenting. Now, if you're not familiar with Ella, she's on our admin relations team, and she has done quite a few Dreamforce keynotes. She's helped coordinate a lot of our release readiness lives at Dreamforce, both on stage and recorded. So she's presented to cameras, and she's presented live on stage, and she's also coached quite a few presenters. Mike Gerholdt: And I think this is really important for us to learn because no matter how great the app is that we build, and no matter how cool the functionality is, we need to be able to stand up and deliver. And being a solid presenter and really conveying those ideas is key. So that's why I wanted to have her on the podcast. Mike Gerholdt: Now, just a reminder, if you're listening to this and you really enjoyed this episode, be sure to hit that Follow button or subscribe, depending on what the app is that you're listening to. That way you'll get a new podcast episode every time a new one drops, which is on Thursday mornings. So with that, let's get Ella on the podcast. Mike Gerholdt: So Ella, welcome to the podcast. Ella Marks: Thanks so much, Mike. Thanks for having me. Mike Gerholdt: Well, it's been a while, but I think people have seen you elsewhere in the ecosystem. I mean, we're on the same team together, but for community members that haven't run into you or seen the plethora of work that you've put out, what are some of the things you do at Salesforce? Ella Marks: I've been at Salesforce for almost seven years now and I've done a lot of different things and I'm so grateful. A lot of the time that I've spent here has been working with the admin community. You may have seen my face before on Release Readiness Live or on the keynote stage at Dreamforce, but I have the privilege of focusing on creating and distributing content for admins like you on some of our new release features and really exciting new innovations like AI. It's really fun. I get to learn a lot about the platform and I'm always really excited to hear from admins and speak to admins and create presentations for admins. So really excited to be here today and talk to you a little bit more about that. Mike Gerholdt: Cool. I'm thinking ahead and for some of the admins we're getting ready. There's TDX coming up, but also user groups for those of us in the Midwest that aren't snowed in anymore, we can get to user groups and presentations are important there and there's all kinds of stuff that we present. Not to mention that it's probably almost budget season. I got to do some presentations for budget. I got to do a whole bunch of presentations if I'm an admin. Ella Marks: There's no limit I think to the type of presentations and the amount of presentations that you can do as an admin. Like you mentioned, there's events where you're speaking to your fellow admins and developers, there's internal presentations. And I think the most exciting thing or interesting thing to me about presentations is no matter what presentation you're giving or who you're giving it to, you can go about planning for it and preparing that presentation in kind of the same way. There's some fundamentals that go across every type of presentation that you may have or create in your role as an admin. Mike Gerholdt: And you've done quite a few because I remember seeing you on the Dreamforce keynote stage and Release Readiness. I feel like you've done a lot of different style presentations too. Ella Marks: I've honestly had the privilege to be on a bunch of different stages at Salesforce, whether it's a virtual presentation or a webinar on the Dreamforce stage or even at an event. This year, I got to present and connect with a lot of people at world tour events, and like I said, they're all very different. The people in the audience are very different, and so the way that I create content for them, while I might be covering the same things is always going to have a different output because I am trying to tailor it to the audience that I have, but I kind of use the same fundamental principles when approaching any presentation I give, whether it's online, in person, a hybrid. There's a few key things that I really go back to. Mike Gerholdt: Well, let's dive into those principles. Where do you start? Ella Marks: The first thing that I do when I'm putting together any presentation is identify the audience that I'm presenting for. Now, this can be super straightforward. Sometimes you're going to know exactly who's going to be in the room. You might be doing an internal presentation at work, the stakeholders, the names on a meeting invite, and you can take the guidance from there. In other times, you may not have the list of everybody exactly who's going to be in the room, but you have a sense of who they are. So a user group presentation, for example, you may know there's a mix of admins and developers and maybe architects in that room. Ella Marks: And you need to know who those people are in order to build a presentation that is really going to engage them and teach them or persuade them or whatever your goal is. You need to start with knowing who that audience is to understand where that goal fits in and how can I communicate this information best to them. Mike Gerholdt: But I'm going to play devil's advocate and say, so what if I'm presenting to a user group and maybe I've only been there once and I don't know all the people that are going to see my presentation. What do you do then? Ella Marks: One of my favorite things that presenters do, and I use this trick sometimes. And Mike, I've seen presentations where I know you've done this too, is you can ask the room. I think it's important for us to not make any assumptions about the audiences that we're speaking to. I think that can lead sometimes to a lack of clarity and confusion. And so if you're presenting to a user group about a topic that you know a lot about, I think it's a great tool. Sometimes even just engage the audience and bring them with you to say, "Before I get started, raise your hand if you're an admin or raise your hand if you have familiarity with the topic that I'm going to cover." Ella Marks: And that does two things. One, it tells you how you can tailor the rest of your content or your presentation to the people in the room, but it also kind of opens up almost a dialogue between you and the audience. So even if they don't speak for the rest of your presentation, you've created a real human moment of engagement with them that is going to be super important and key to holding their attention for the entire time that you're presenting. Mike Gerholdt: And much like that, and Ella, I've seen you do this, is if you're going to ask the question, make sure it's data that you're going to actually act upon. Because I feel if you're going to somehow tailor your presentation and make a couple versions, which I've done for user groups because I wasn't sure what the level of interest or the level of knowledge of the topic that I was talking about was, then you can kind of immediately pivot based on that. And I think everybody appreciates when they took the time to raise their hand that you're actually curating the content for that. Ella Marks: There absolutely needs to be a payoff. If you're someone that's not as comfortable giving presentations, starting with the question at the very beginning and trying to weave that throughout can feel intimidating. And what I would recommend instead is to pick a moment within your content where you can do exactly Mike, what you just said. Which is, you have a slide that hits on, maybe it's a new feature or a different topic. Instead of asking a super broad question that you then need to weave into your story for the rest of your presentation. You can tailor your question to exactly what you're talking about on the slide. Ella Marks: And that can help you build that muscle to incorporate who's in the room and that audience into your talk track without having to start with that big broad question at the beginning. We have to start somewhere. And I think a great place to learn that skill is really starting with something small, a specific slide or a specific product, and learning from there how to incorporate the questions that you're asking to a more broader scale to cover a whole presentation. Mike Gerholdt: So sticking on the theme of building content, there's a lot of mechanics to a presentation, but building the content. Depending on the topic you're choosing, it can feel like you're boiling the ocean. "I have all this to show, and I'm on slide 68 already. I can't possibly show "What are some of the techniques that you use to really boil down what you're presenting given sometimes the restricted timeline that you have? Ella Marks: First, before I go into tips, I just want to reiterate that phrase, don't boil the ocean. That is the number one thing that literally... Mike Gerholdt: Literally don't. If you have a big death ray, please don't boil the ocean. Ella Marks: Please don't boil the ocean. Global warming, we don't need that. But I think with presentations, it's super important because you usually have limited time to communicate whatever it is in your presentation you're going to communicate. That's not even considering the fact that people's attention spans are short. So you need to do that work to figure out what are your key points. And one of the things that I really like to do is I create a document and I will just start an outline. I'll start typing out what I think the points are in the story that I need to cover. Ella Marks: I'll include any important examples, include a CTA, kind of those key pieces of a presentation, but I'm not actually putting it together yet. I'm just making a huge list of everything I think might be included. And then from there, I go in and I kind of prioritize. So that list is usually way longer than what the presentation ends up being or has way more information, but it is a starting point. And that's the starting point that I kind of use to say, "Okay, I'm identifying that I'm seeing a couple common themes in what I've written out here. How can I communicate those most effectively?" Ella Marks: And what I like about the list is that if you're doing it... Whatever platform that you're using, a Google Doc, a Quip Doc, whatever, it's really easy to copy and paste and move around the order as well to think about not just, "What am I including, but how am I going to start creating this story?" And that gives you kind of a framework to use moving forward. Mike Gerholdt: I would agree. So you mentioned story, and I think a big part of storytelling is the visual element. How do you balance just not putting paragraphs of text up on the slides and that imagery? Ella Marks: It's a really good question, and it's something that I ask myself all the time. Because I'm not a designer, I do not consider myself to be good at graphic design. And so when I build a presentation, it can feel really intimidating to think about what are the visuals that I need to create? And there's a technique that I learned at Salesforce that I was taught called blue boxing, and that's really what I use. And the way that it works is once I've gotten to that state, I have my outline, I kind of know what I'm going to put on slides. Instead of jumping right to what is my final slide going to look like, here is the exact paragraphs, here's the exact talk track, here's the exact visual. Ella Marks: I kind of take a step back from that and use blue boxes, literal blue boxes on a slide to map out what I think it could look like and how I think the content on the slide can reinforce what it is that I'm going to say. So if I know that I'm going to put together a slide that has some tips, for example. I might put together a placement of where those tips might go and think, "Oh, there could be a supporting image for this." What I don't do is I don't dive in and find that image right away. I really take that step of thinking through, "Okay, what is a visual that can support what I'm saying?" And I go through the whole deck like that first and then come back to really hone in on what the message is on that particular slide and pull in those core visuals. Ella Marks: But taking that step to do that kind of blue boxing framework really helps you identify how the story is going to flow and how those visuals are going to support you. Because I will say there are times when you're going to want more text on a slide than others, and so you want to have a good balance of that. You don't want folks to also just only be reading the content on your slides while you're speaking to them. And so if you take that kind of step to build it out first, you'll have a better idea of what the mix of your presentation is going to look like, how you might use different slide formats to engage people, because we know people have short attention spans, so you want to make sure that we're kind of switching things up. Ella Marks: We're providing different visuals every few minutes, and I think using design is a very powerful tool to help you do that. Mike Gerholdt: I would agree. I would agree. Plus pacing, when you're thinking that through, you mentioned people have short attention spans, so keeping the slides moving also helps keep people's attention as well. I think often when I'm reviewing decks or I'm watching presentations at events, and these are outside of Salesforce too, sometimes people have a hard time closing their presentation. I feel like it's either one, they kind of fade off into the distance. It's like an eighties' movie where they just walk off into the beach into the sunset and we never hear from them again. Or it's like a steel door slamming shut where it's like, "Okay, so that's this. And if you have any questions, thanks." Bam. Mike Gerholdt: And the presentation's done. What's your approach for the closure because I feel like the closure is the most important part? Ella Marks: I'd agree that if you don't have people with you at the end, I think you've really missed a big opportunity when it comes to creating presentations. The way that I would think about it is throughout your entire presentation, as you're putting together that outline. There are three things that you can think about that you want people to take away, how you want them to feel, what you want them to think and how you want them to act. And I would say that's not just your final slide or the thing that you leave the audience with. That should be at the core of why you're putting that presentation together. Ella Marks: I think the final slide in that CTA is incredibly important, but I also think that as someone in the audience who doesn't know anything about your presentation going into it, I think that they should know where you're going throughout the presentation. And that's really how you make whatever it is you share, whatever your CTA is super impactful. So I'll give you an example of that. If you're going to do an amazing presentation, let's say it's on new release features and you're going into great depth about... We have the spring 24 release right now, I know that's top of mind for a lot of admins. Ella Marks: If you go through great content throughout, at the end, to your point, if you don't leave folks with something to do next, they start to question what the purpose was of you sharing all that information. And as a speaker, that is the opposite of what you want. You want to be able to say, "I'm doing this presentation to help you prepare for the release, and I'm going to do that by showing you features and leaving you with either a resource or an approach or tips for you to take and go do this at your own companies or deliver your own presentation." Ella Marks: And I think where sometimes people fall flat is they think, "Great, I'll throw a CTA in my presentation at the end, and then everybody will go read my blog post or they'll all go follow me on various social media networks." And unfortunately, if you're not working in the purpose of what that CTA is throughout, it's not going to have that same impact. So you need it to close strong, but it shouldn't be an afterthought. Everything in your presentation should in essence be pointing towards your end goal, whatever you want to leave the audience with. Mike Gerholdt: I've many a times seen an entire slide devoted to resources and thought to myself, "I don't know where to start." There's a lot of resources, but a library is a resource too, and it's full of books, but I don't know where to start. [inaudible 00:16:32] Ella Marks: It's so common. Well, and that's the thing, it's kind of a double-edged sword, right? Because a lot of times there's so many resources because there are so many good resources out there, and that's awesome. But one thing to keep in mind when you're putting together a presentation is you're presenting because you have expertise or you have a message to share. And so really rely on that. Use that to say, "Okay, great. I know there are tons of resources." But actually share your recommendation. What is the number one thing that you would do. That's something that you as a presenter bring that no one else can that's unique to you, what that next step is. Ella Marks: We know that where most presentations, if you put 10 resources, people usually don't look at all 10. I hate to say it, but they probably won't look at more than one anyway, so focus on that one thing. And you really use your credibility that you've built with your audience to drive towards something more specific than a laundry list of things that people can do or read or engage with. Mike Gerholdt: A lot of this content creation focused around a solo presenter, but I think it carries over if you're presenting with someone else. And I see this a lot at our events, even user groups. It's a lot easier. And myself included, the first time I presented at Dreamforce, I had a co-presenter. It's a lot easier to feel like more people carrying the weight of a presentation. What advice or what best practices do you have when you're pairing up with somebody to present on how you divide up content and how the two of you interact during the presentation? Ella Marks: The first thing that I would do if I was presenting with someone else is have a meeting, get together with them, chat with them. I'm someone that prefers a meeting. I know some folks like to communicate on Slack or other formats, but I just love to chat with someone about this because you are going to be presenting and speaking. And to me, that's the best way to get a sense of that person's presentation style. And in that conversation, we might divide, if we're building content together, we might talk about our own expertise and where we feel like we can add the most value to the story and divide up the content that we work on and the slides and who's speaking based on what we think our strengths are. Ella Marks: And then making sure that we're having a really open conversation about that. And I think one thing that you can do that when you divide a presentation, a lot of times what you see is, "Okay, Mike and I are presenting together. I'll take one slide, Mike, you take the next one, then we'll go back and forth." And sometimes that doesn't feel super. It feels a little disjointed when you haven't had the chance to actually talk through your content and rehearse. Rehearsing is so important for any presentation, but if you have more than one person, it is absolutely critical because that's how you're going to feel out how that story is going to come together. Ella Marks: And what you may find is, "Yeah, I'm presenting with Mike, and Mike has a ton of expertise in this one area, but I have something to add there too." And actually switching up who's speaking on a particular slide that can reengage the audience. That's another tool that we have in our toolkits to make sure that people are staying with us throughout our presentation. And all that's going to come down to whether or not you've communicated all of these things with your co-presenter. Making sure that you guys are connected every step of the way is I think the best way to make a successful presentation with a partner or with the group, whoever it is. Mike Gerholdt: I would agree. And I feel to that point of, I've seen decks and presentations where it's every other slide. Change it up where it makes it most relevant because there is a little bit with the audience of context switching going on where they're trying to understand who's speaking and it should be relevant if the person's speaking and not just, "Oh, well, that means if we go every other one, I'm on this slide and I don't know anything about this." It can also help you regroup content that you're putting together. Ella Marks: Absolutely. And there's a lot of different ways that you can do this, but I really think that having that conversation with your co-presenter or co-presenters is going to be the best way to highlight how can you use your collective energy to get your message across in the best way possible? Mike Gerholdt: Right. Stage presence or stagecraft, even in small presentations where boardrooms I think are super important. How do you prepare for that? What are some of the things that you've gone through as you've kind of honed your ability as you were getting ready for a Dreamforce keynote to kind of make sure that your presence was there and it was adding to what the content you were presenting? Ella Marks: There are definitely a few things I do before every presentation, but I think a lot of it for me personally comes down to some important self-talk and pump up for a presentation. When you're chosen to present at an event or you've submitted something to a community conference, sometimes you need to remind yourself the day of, you get a little bit nervous, you might be scared to present. You were chosen for this, and you have knowledge and expertise to share. And going back for me and giving myself that confidence is probably the most important step that I take before I present anything. I always have to remind myself there's a reason I'm here. Ella Marks: I have valuable knowledge to share. I'll reset on whatever the topic or the goal is of the presentation. And then my hidden trick, I would say. I was like, "I don't know where I was going with that sneaky trick." I guess. Sneaky trick, my trick or treat tip, which is not uncommon at all, is I love a pump up song. I just love something to help, I don't know, make me feel energized and excited because I know that if I go into a presentation not pumped up, it's going to be really hard for people to listen. A lot of times we present... Internally, we present in a meeting and there's a lot of other people presenting or we're in a lot of meetings that day, or at Dreamforce, people attend a lot of sessions. Ella Marks: That's a lot of listening. And if you come out there with flat energy and aren't excited to be there and excited to get going, it shows and it makes it a lot harder for people to actually listen and absorb the content. And so going in pumping myself up is actually something that when I don't do it, I feel like I can tell in the presentation that my energy is not there, that I'm not communicating what I could in the best way possible. Mike Gerholdt: You know I have to ask what your pump up song is, right? Ella Marks: I know. It changes. A lot of my pump up songs are Lizzo though. I have to say Lizzo. I do love Taylor Swift as well, but I just... Lizzo, the number one song for me last year was Truth Hurts. There's some lyrics in there that I can't repeat on the podcast, but if you listen to the song, I think... Mike Gerholdt: My pump up song... Ella Marks: I think you'll know. Mike Gerholdt: A lot of lyrics I can't repeat on the podcast. Ella Marks: If you do listen, I think you'll know exactly what part of the song I'm referring to where I walk out and I'm like, "Aha, let's go. Let's get into it." Mike Gerholdt: So if you see people at community events or at Salesforce events, walk up to the stage with their AirPods in, it's probably a pump up song that they're listening to. I can't blame them. If you were to boil down and think of maybe, I don't know... Let's choose five because five's a good number to remember. What are five things that you always try to include that you really look for in like, "Wow, that presentation knocked it out of the park?" Ella Marks: That's a good question. As a reviewer of a lot of content, I'm just trying to think the things that have absolutely wowed me. Well definitely first, when it comes to presenting a good title to me, I'm immediately locked in. If there's a description associated with it like it would be for an event or maybe even a calendar invite. That to me is a sign of a good presentation. I know what I'm going to see. I'm excited for that content and I'm kind of hopeful to dive in. The second is probably... This is tough. There's just so many different ways to present, but I think looking for people that engage with the audience. Ella Marks: So either doing what we talked about before, getting that post-check of who's in the room or have some sort of engaging component to their presentation. That for me, because my attention span is very short, tends to be a very effective way to get my attention. And I enjoy presentations that have that. I think when people also set context by sharing their own expertise, we didn't talk about it in this conversation, but I think one important thing that you really need to do when you present is make sure that you highlight who you are. You need to have an introduction that is, "Here's who I am, here's why I'm here." And that builds credibility. Ella Marks: So when I hear something or see a presentation that I know the person is credible, that usually also is an indicator to me that it's a great presentation. Mike, I feel like you wanted five quick tips, and I'm giving you a lot longer than that. Mike Gerholdt: I don't know. I just picked five out of the air because it sounds good. It doesn't have to be five. Ella Marks: I also can't count, so I don't know what I'm on, but I'll say... Mike Gerholdt: Well, as a good host, you'd think I was paying attention and counting. Ella Marks: This is where I would use a visual to reinforce what I'm saying and remind me. If I was presenting this, I would put together a slide and I would have probably five horizontal bubbles on the slide and a few words about each, and that would help me stay on track. And at the end, I would have a super effective CTA, which I think would be one of the things that I look out for. If I know what... If I'm feeling inspired or motivated, or even just know the next steps I have to take after a presentation. That's how I know that it was good and it was effective. Ella Marks: And then I think my final thing would be, and this may seem counterintuitive, but if I have questions, a lot of times that's a sign to me that the content was really interesting. I think if I want to approach a speaker after their presentation and want to learn more and want to continue the conversation. I have follow-ups or things like that, that's a sign that they did a really good job in engaging me. It could sometimes be a sign that they didn't share the right information. So I think you have to be careful there, but wanting to connect with the presenter, wanting to learn a little bit more and asking a question, I think is engaging in itself. So that to me is a good sign that it was a good presentation as well. Mike Gerholdt: I go back and forth with questions, but I see your point. I think for me, I mean if I was to boil it to one thing. I don't have a word, but the comfort ability that the presenter has with the content. I really love it when somebody, it doesn't feel like their first time going through the content. And it so bugs me when I see somebody walk through and they click and goes to the slide and it surprises them. You're like, "Really? Okay." I really like it when somebody knows something and the slides are almost happening in the background and they're really paying attention to the audience. That to me, really gets me. And that comes with rehearsals, it comes with knowing the content, everything that you said previously. Ella Marks: Absolutely. I think a lot of us think, especially people who give presentations all the time, we're like, "Oh, we can win this. It'll be fine. I know the content." But the reality is people can tell when you have not done the preparation necessary for a particular presentation. And so I think it is a great sign of a good presentation and good content when someone isn't overly relying on their visuals or words on the slide to tell the story. Ella Marks: It's actually a story that they're telling where the visuals are supporting. It's not at the center of everything that they're doing. It's really more of a show that you're watching. Mike Gerholdt: I often compare presenting to athletes. Some of the greatest athletes that we've had in baseball or basketball or whatever sport you watch, they practice and there's a reason for that. They don't just show up and naturally wing it. Derek Jeter didn't naturally winged being good. It's repetition and it's doing and becoming comfortable with the moment. So it's great stuff. Thank you, Ella for coming on the pod and sharing. This is very relevant for where we are right now. Not only heading into TDX, but heading into world tour. And I feel like community group season, not to mention just budget presenting. I want more things in Salesforce season to my executives and all kinds of presentation times. Ella Marks: This is definitely super timely. So thanks so much, Mike, for having me. Mike Gerholdt: So I love that discussion with Ella. That was a lot of fun. And as with anything, presenting, content creation, stagecraft, there's only so much we can cover, but I feel like we could do so much more. And we're heading into Dreamforce. So a lot of people are probably getting ready to present or even if you're not going as a presenter, you might have to do like I did, which was get back and have to present what you learned. So you're presenting one way or another. But I enjoyed this. Mike Gerholdt: I love coaching people on how to present and Ella's one of truly a few people that can do it super well. So again, if you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you give us a follow on the app that you're listening to, and then that way you get new episodes. And of course, any resources that we listed can be found at admin.salesforce.com, including a transcript of the show, so that way you can read it and follow along. And of course, participate in the Admin Trailblazer community that is in the Trailblazer Group. And of course the link to that is in the show notes. So with that, until next week, I'll see you in the cloud.
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Thu, 8 August 2024
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Jennifer Cole, Director of Business Intelligence and Automation at 908 Devices. Join us as we chat about why understanding and documenting your business processes is critical for collecting quality data in your org. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Jennifer Cole. Admins connect the dots Jen recently co-presented at World Tour Boston about business processes and data strategy, and I wanted to get her on the pod to tell you all about it. “Data isn’t helpful if you don’t know your process,” she says, “it’s just interesting facts on a screen that maybe make pretty graphs but what does it tell you if you don’t know what questions you’re answering?” I think a common misconception is that it’s the people not doing the day-to-day work who don’t understand the business process. As Jen points out, it’s often the folks actually doing the process who don’t understand why they need to log data a certain way. As we’ll get into, that’s not necessarily their fault—there’s an information gap. So it’s up to us as Salesforce Admins to connect those dots and spell out why accurate data is so important. How inaccurate data gets in your org Jen often supports sales teams and it’s a great example of how inaccurate data can end up in your org. Now it might sound obvious, but sales teams want to sell things. They don’t understand why they need to log an email into Salesforce or create the next step on an opportunity because they don’t know how that information will be used. So you see a lot of rushing through fields or just filling in a random date because it doesn’t matter anyway, right? And that’s where the problems creep in. Inaccurate data creates inaccurate business decisions. AI tools like Einstein Copilot or Next Best Action turn into useless, expensive toys without accurate data. So the first step is to figure out what questions you need to answer with data. If you can get to the Why behind the business process, you can build bridges across your organization and bring people together. Business processes and getting to why The next step is to explain the Why to the people involved in the business process. For example, “If you log your follow-up calls accurately, we can look at all that data and tell you the best time to make those calls,” or, “Sue from marketing will use this to send a targeted drip campaign that we know makes them more likely to buy from you.” Suddenly, you’ve created a feedback loop that gets the people entering data invested in data quality. Training is the best time to get started with explaining why. When they fill in this field, who else will use that information and how will it help the business as a whole? You need to get them invested in the process and help them see the broader picture. There’s so much more great stuff from Jen about how to look at your business processes and data strategy, so be sure to listen to the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to hear more from the Salesforce Admins Podcast. Podcast swag Learn more Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike:
This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're talking with Jennifer Cole about data strategy and process. Well, yeah, a little something different because in the world of AI and a lot of tools just in general, not to mention automation tools, it's good to know what you're doing with your data and do you have a process in place to make sure you're collecting good data. Also, I ask her about bad data, so that's an interesting answer. But really understanding what data are you collecting, and does everybody know the process for data collection because as we know, it's going to be even more important to have great data so that AI can give us even better insights. But if we don't know the process, then I think we're in trouble. So Jennifer's going to help us with that.
But before we get into the episode, just a reminder that if you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, be sure to click the follow button, that way this podcast can automatically be downloaded right to your device so that when you're out on your dog walk, you don't have to worry about downloading it because it'll already be there. And of course, I always appreciate a good review, so let me know how we're doing. With that, let's talk process and data quality and maybe data strategies. There's quite a few things in this podcast with Jennifer. And let's get Jennifer on the podcast. So, Jen, welcome back to the podcast. Jennifer Cole:
Thanks, Mike. I'm really excited to be back. Mike:
Well, last time, and I'll put a link in the show notes because you won't hear that a thousand more times today, but we were talking about documenting your process as an admin when you're solving things. Jennifer Cole:
Yes, good stuff. Mike:
I know. Well, I really enjoyed that. I could spend, again, probably another two hours doing that because, first of all, I constantly forget, "What was I doing here?" I should have wrote that down better. But we've since caught up a thousand other times and wanted to expand on that conversation because with AI, there's so many more shiny tools out there. Jennifer Cole:
There are. Mike:
I know, seriously. Jennifer Cole:
A lot. Mike:
I'm getting the cart in front of the horse. Let's refresh people about the amount of awesomeness stuff that you work on and what you do in the community. So let's start there. Jennifer Cole:
Sure. Yeah. I am Director of Business Intelligence and Automation at 908 Devices, which is a super cool title that basically says, "I am still an awesome admin." I'm building apps and supporting my team. I run a team of awesome admins and have recently been able to co-present with one of my awesome admins at the Boston World Tour last, what, two months ago? Wow, time flies. Mike:
I know. Yeah. Jennifer Cole:
Oh, so much. Talking about process and data strategy. So that is my sweet spot and what I'm still rocking out at 908. Mike:
I feel everybody now is paying attention to data with AI. Data, data, data. Pay attention to your data, clean your data, wash your data, put your data in a dishwasher. Jennifer Cole:
Give me your data. Mike:
Cascade is going to have special data tabs here pretty soon. Tide's going to have data pods, right? I'm kidding. Jennifer Cole:
I was going to ask if they were going to be Salesforce branded, that would've been fun. I would've bought those. Mike:
Oh, I know, right? But they only work in the cloud, so you'd have to stand outside in the rain. That wasn't a well-thought-through joke, so that's okay. You can't have a zinger every single time. But you bring up a good point. So what good is data if you don't know your process, right? Jennifer Cole:
Yeah. I don't know that it's helpful if you don't know your process. It's just interesting facts on a screen that maybe make pretty graphs, but what does it tell you if you don't know what questions you're answering? Mike:
Yeah. I guess in the scheme of things, if we're sitting down and we're looking at our data and we're cleaning our data, we should really take a step back and think about, "What are we doing with our process?" And maybe to your point, and you can expand on this, does everybody know the process? Do you run into a lot of organizations that don't know their process? Jennifer Cole:
Yes. Mike:
Or a process, I should say. The process, like there's one. Jennifer Cole:
Can I choose C, all of the above? Mike:
C, all of the above. Jennifer Cole:
Yeah, actually quite a few. And I would expect most people assume it's certain pockets of the organization or those who just aren't doing the day-to-day work, but I don't think that's true. I actually experience people that are doing the day-to-day work don't even fully understand the process or why they're doing what they're doing or what information downstream or upstream their process is being leveraged in. So it's everywhere, honestly. Mike:
Look, we all go to work. People are probably listening to this podcast going to work, like, "I'm going to go to work and send some emails and do work." And they do things. So when you say they don't know the process, what about that do you... Is it there's no organizational book or they don't know where the data comes and they don't know what they're shipping out or where it goes? Jennifer Cole:
I think a little bit of both, but if I think about the group of folks I support the largest amount of my time against is the sales organization. They have an objective to make sales, right? They're in sales. It's literally in their title. And for them, they just want to get the job done, right? They want to make a customer happy, they want to book that order, and they want to move on to the next one. And they don't always understand why they have to log an email into Salesforce or why they need to create this next step on their opportunity, and who is actually using the application field that they're tagging about their customer.
I think they get rightfully so focused on what they're trying to achieve, they don't see the broader picture of where their data's going and how that helps the company refine what they're doing or tweak the customer they want to focus on or tweak how we do things to make them more efficient. So I think in that particular very specific example, they're just so focused on their job, they don't understand why or how it matters. Mike:
You bring up a very good step in the sales process. If they don't understand why that step's required and the data they're gathering for that step, then they're less likely to do it, right? They'll just do it in a spreadsheet and then when the deal's closed, they'll just go in Salesforce and just bang through the opportunity as fast as they can, right? Jennifer Cole:
Right. There's nothing enriching in that. I can't look at a bigger scope of data to understand, "Geez, a lot of our opportunities close faster when they do a follow-up call 20 days after X event." And that would be juicy information to know because then it becomes a feedback loop in the process to say, "Hey, it looks like the odds of closing your deal faster if you do this particular step." But if all of that is being logged outside of the system and we don't know how many follow-up calls there are or face-to-face meetings or customer demos that are taking place, then we can't provide that intel back to help them achieve their goals faster and smarter. Mike:
So if they're logging, let's say, a required field, which is an arbitrary date because they're trying to get through to the closed one because they think they're following the process, but they really did the whole thing out of Salesforce, and then it's Friday night and the quarter closes and they're trying to get their opportunities in, by not understanding the process, are they then creating bad data? Jennifer Cole:
Oh, bad's a funny word. I would say inaccurate data. I would say data that's going to mislead you. Yes, there's technically bad data, but in that case, it's not intentionally bad. It's more just inaccurate to the true story. And I think that can make it very misleading for the business because they might adjust their workflow based upon the intel they have and it actually isn't improving anything because nobody was being honest about what they were entering. Mike:
So CEO goes to, we'll use your example, Boston World Tour and sees the new AI, Copilot and Einstein stuff, and maybe wants to use Einstein Next Best Action, but because they're just putting in arbitrary dates, the new shiny isn't really helping them. Jennifer Cole:
No, it just becomes a very expensive toy. Sorry, but it does. It doesn't help them move anything faster, right? Mike:
Yeah. And I think it's an interesting concept because we always go back to, "Well, this one thing will just help you do stuff better." But ultimately, before you even look at those things, it's, "But what is the process that you're trying to get to? Do you even understand the process?" Is that where you start with a lot of things? Jennifer Cole:
It's where I start everything. When a person comes for an enhancement or wants to report out on this particular metric or get data to understand what's happening with their business, the question always begins with, "What questions are you trying to answer? I understand you are asking for this data point, but why? Is it something you're doing today or you're not doing today and you want to understand how well you are or are not filling that information in or following that process?"
Because understanding the process for me and my experience and my team's experience helps us serve our customers better. And when I say customer, I mean internal employees in this case because we're an internal team. We help them achieve so much more when we can get underneath and get to the why. Understanding their why is what drives bigger change for us because it often is not just them who need the help or need the change, but actually other people in the organization have that same why. So process is almost like a keystone in the bridge for us. We have to get to it. We have to understand it before we start building across and bridging islands together. Mike:
Man, the number of times understanding the why has come up. I should get a shirt that says that. Jennifer Cole:
That'd be a great shirt. Mike:
Understand the why. So let me dial in specifically for an admin that's listening. Are there things that you build into your application when you create something, let's say for sales or customer service, that helps remind the end user about the why? Jennifer Cole:
Sometimes, yes. Actually, a recent deployment we did was to enable sales to capture who should get automated booking and shipping notifications. And we moved that into Salesforce so that when it replicates over to our ERP, it's auto-fed. It's just more accurate. The sales rep knows who should be getting those notices. And we have those fields there to fill in those addresses, but we did something super simple. We added a little text bubble, an actual text component on the lightning page that explained what field did what, and critical reminders about which field you should fill in and which field you should update this address only.
And the feedback we got was, "That was great. I need that. That always will remind me because I can never remember what I'm supposed to do or why it matters." And it was just a really simple little text component on the screen. So we try to do small things like that where we nudge them through the workflow with those gentle reminders, conditional visibility reminders, anything that helps them in that moment for that particular step in the process to remember the critical reason why it matters helps. Mike:
Yeah. That's really great because you think about the level of complexity that is getting added to everyone's job. I remember as an admin, I'd spent two, three months with maybe a department or a team working on what their process is and getting their app right in Salesforce. And by the end of it, man, you could have quizzed me Jeopardy-level on what was going on with that team and how the data flowed and I would have nailed it, but two months later- Jennifer Cole:
It's gone. Mike:
... no idea. It's gone. Jennifer Cole:
What's my name? Yes. Mike:
I'll take, nope, I don't know, hodgepodge for 500, Alex. Jennifer Cole:
Yes. Real admin life. Mike:
Exactly. But somehow you just expect to turn that app over to your users and like, "Oh, I'm sure they'll remember this." So when you're creating an app and have those epiphanies, "Let's add this box that reminds people," how important is it for you? Or how important do you feel it is that admins make sure that their users know where the data that they're working on comes from and where it goes? Jennifer Cole:
I think it's actually critical to adoption. Everyone loves to throw this word adoption around, and it's more than just logins. It's actually usability of the system and following the process. And we had a sales meeting, was it two years ago, a year ago? And we were asked to present as a Salesforce team to the sales team about critical fields they need to fill in. And everyone's done those trainings. They're painful for the salespeople. They're just sitting there, "Yeah, okay, I have to fill in the application. Yeah, okay, I have to update my close date. Yeah, okay." And they go through this monotony. But what we found was so successful and an incredible adoption to following the process was when we told them why.
We said, "Okay, when you fill this in, here are the people after you that are using this data. Here's your marketing team and how they're using it to refine the drip campaigns to send to your customers. So if you classify them right, they're going to get special content against their industry or application usage." And we found, Mike, it was the coolest thing, we found in our support channel, we use Slack for issues and questions by the business, people after that sales meeting we're just saying, "Now, what if I choose this and what happens if I choose this?" Because they knew who was using the data that they input and where it went, they started to care. And then we just saw greater adoption and questions around, "Well, what happens if I choose the wrong thing? Can I fix it?" And that's a win as an admin in my book when your business suddenly cares about the data they're putting in. Mike:
Yeah, especially for salespeople. I did an exercise like that where the salespeople went through the call center. And I remember sitting in the break room and the salespeople sitting down with call center agents and like, "Well, whenever we get this from sales, it says this." And them sitting there going, "Well, we fill it out because we think it's this." But those two people had never talked. And the second they talked, it was like, "Oh, well we could 100% get this." And then the customer service agent is like, "Oh, that would be so helpful because then when they call in and ask, we don't have to spend 20 minutes looking something up." Jennifer Cole:
It's amazing. It's powerful. Mike:
I'll take ownership of this too, it's the fact that when you sit down sometimes, you work at processes at a stage gate level and you forget, "Okay, well, I did sales and then sales ends here." Well, sales doesn't end there. There's that gray area, and I just didn't bring those groups together. I jumped over to service and obviously everything shipped and it was fine or then they'd call, except that gap in between there is the parts you got to work on. Jennifer Cole:
The bridging of the teams and how the data flows between them. Mike:
Yeah. Jennifer Cole:
I think that's where the secret sauce is. Mike:
A lot of it is. So let's touch on this. Automation has always been huge, and I know we've talked a lot with you about integrations and bringing data over. How does not knowing the process really impact automations? Jennifer Cole:
How much time do we have? No, I'm kidding. Mike:
As much time as you'd like. Jennifer Cole:
I think it can have a huge impact on the business in not a good way. I think it could accelerate inaccurate data faster. If you don't understand your process and why you're filling in what fields, you could be filling in fields that mean nothing to your business, that mean nothing to you learning how to change your process, adapt your process to better suit your business and your customers. I think it can actually be an unfortunate waste of energy for your admins and money for the organization if you just don't understand what you want to do and who's doing what and why. Remember the TV show Lost, which is very controversial, no one likes the ending of Lost. But remember- Mike:
I remember it. I'm one of the few people that never got into it. Jennifer Cole:
Okay, consider yourself lucky. Mike:
So I've been told. Jennifer Cole:
You've saved so many hours of your life that you've done better things with. Mike:
Oh no, I've wasted them with other TV shows. Jennifer Cole:
Well, I will quickly say, for the audience that does know the show, there's this scene or episode where this guy just keeps pressing a red button and he has no idea why. And then he leaves and someone else has to take over pressing this red button. And ultimately, it ends up being not as critical as anyone might think, but they're just doing it because they were told to do it and they have to do it, but nobody knows why.
And I think businesses, if they don't understand their process, are doing the same thing. They're demanding fields to be populated by their users that are never used, that are never actually aggregated to understand if there's value or something to modify an existing workflow or change the direction of how you advertise to customers. They're just pressing red buttons. So I think it can be dangerous if you don't understand. Mike:
Yeah. So is that perpetuated by the fact that a lot of products and services are sold with, "Here's the easy way to fix your X"? Jennifer Cole:
Short answer? Yes. And I understand why that's done. They want to show the ease of use of the tool. But I think the piece that's really hard is we can't get underneath to see how it's built to know if it's going to work for our challenging business problems that we're trying to solve. And what isn't really discussed either is why understanding your data strategy is so important and how that tool fits in. I think that's missed.
And I don't think that's always understood by the C-suite or the folks that are paying for these tools. They just see this really cool tool like, "Hey, AI is going to do this for you. I want to be able to do that too. Let's just buy it." But somebody has to understand how it works, and somebody has to understand the process so that it actually becomes valuable. It's missed. It's truly, truly missed. And it's hard for admins. Mike:
Well, I think you said something that's even bigger than process that I'm realizing now, which is process exists in a world where there is a data strategy. Jennifer Cole:
It's a piece. Mike:
We've probably not sat down, I've never sat down, have you ever sat down and written a data strategy with an organization? Jennifer Cole:
Written it down? No. It's desperately needed, but conversations are a good place to start, for sure. Mike:
Yeah, but it's something that we as a Salesforce admin should think about because then we can create a world in which process can exist because data strategy tells me, "We know where the data is going to originate from, how we're going to use it, and what our end goals are." And end goals could be many endpoints. And then within that data strategy world is where we start to build different processes that take that data and transform it into useful things that the business can then use to make decisions on. So we just haven't sat down and wrote data strategies. Jennifer Cole:
I think so. And I think that's hard day one. My own experience has been the process that was just built over time because somebody needed this field or somebody wanted to do this. There wasn't a broader conversation of, "Well, who else wants to use this field?" And it's something I need, do you need it too, Mike? Those conversations, I don't think they happen at the beginning because businesses are just trying to get off the ground and they're just trying to get customers engaged.
So we're a little bit backwards in the whole process, but it is critical, I think, for businesses to start and stop... Well, how do I want to say this? They need to stop and think about, "We've got all these processes, do they still make sense? Are they where we want to go and do they fit into our larger strategy for what data we want to use to navigate the ship of our business truly?" So I think unfortunately, the data strategy doesn't come until after processes are baked in, but hopefully not too solidified that they can't rip them up and start something from scratch if it doesn't fit the strategy they want to achieve. Mike:
Right. Yeah, because I'm thinking early day one, which who knows where people are at, but early day one of a sales process is, "How do you get the widget to the customer as fast as possible?" Right? Jennifer Cole:
Yeah. Mike:
Later stage day one, as the company matures, "How do we efficiently get the widget to the customer and understand our operational challenges?" Jennifer Cole:
It's an evolution, yeah. Mike:
We're still shipping widgets, it's just why does the widget sit for six days at this stage? Is that six days lost or is that six days... I don't know. And that's where data strategy figures that out because are we even capturing that data to make that decision to figure that stuff out? And if not, then we need to start doing that. Jennifer Cole:
Yes. And it makes me think about how I'm hearing more in the community, which very much excites me, of reverse thinking, "Well, what do you want to measure? Okay, let's go backwards and figure out do you even have the fields to start measuring it. And are you measuring it because you're curious or are you measuring it because it's something you want to bake into your workflow and your process there?" So I'm excited to hear more in the community of folks starting to think about this reverse modeling of, "Well, we want to understand what our customers are doing with our widgets. Now that they're using them, we're super excited we've got this customer base, but should we start to target certain types of customers? Well, what are they doing with our widgets?"
"Okay, great question. Are you set up to even track that? And what do you need in order to start tracking it? And then who's going to fill it in and do they know why they're filling it in?" That whole reverse model. So that's an exciting shift that I'm hearing more of in the industry and fellow admins to support that data strategy. But I think you're right, that next step is really sitting down to define on paper what that strategy is and then communicating it to everyone in the organization at every level of the organization because that just goes back to the why. When folks understand the why, they get excited, they want to help. Mike:
I'll flip back and forth. So then you sit down, you look at process, you think of data strategy. When looking at tools, what are some things that admins shouldn't be afraid to ask or should really get behind and get their hands dirty looking at? Jennifer Cole:
Oh, thank you for the question. I think it's setup. As a customer of Salesforce, your poor sales reps, I'm tough because I always want to see what's underneath. Don't give me the shiny YouTube video, let me play with it, let me get in there. So I would love for fellow admins to be just as precocious and go into setup. Let me physically see my options. And that's super cool what you just showed me, but how did you set it up? Let me in your demo org. And Salesforce demo orgs are incredible, like what your solution engineers build and play with and what's in there. Ask admins, ask for a sneak peek because you, as an admin, not only need to understand how your business would apply the tool, but you need to understand how it works and how it can scale to solve all the crazy problems that you'll come across because in a way, you've got to sell it to your business. Admins are diverse. They're builders, and they're also internal salespeople to their own executive suite. So I would encourage them to say, "Show me how it's made." Mike:
Yeah. I also, as an admin, liked showing my users if they wanted to see how I made the app or parts of it that, say sales, for example, if they asked, "Well, what happens if we add a step here?" Well, then I can just go click, click, boom, and now that new step shows up in path and shows up in the opportunity. And it lets them know two things. One, I understand the value of being agile and changing because if we're working on a new process, we've got to be ready to, "Hey, this really isn't working despite what we thought it would do on paper." And also two, when we get to that point, you need to know I have the skill to change the application at the speed of business so that we can make that adjustment and keep moving forward. Jennifer Cole:
Yes, I fully agree. And it's interesting too because even my user population loves to see under the hood, even though they're never- Mike:
Oh, really? Jennifer Cole:
... going to use it. Oh, they love it. When they like to see those changes on the fly that you were just speaking to, like, "Yeah, I do know how to manage this application. I do know how to customize it. I can improve it for you." When we do on-demand changes for them in a meeting when we're getting app feedback or process feedback that we've implemented in Salesforce, they just think it's so much fun.
Number one, they gain a lot more confidence in the team because they're seeing something happen in real-time. But number two, they themselves love to see it and enjoy how quickly we can support the business. And also, it allows them to understand when sometimes it takes us more time because it's more complicated, there's a better understanding. So totally diverging topics on you, but yeah, users love it too. Mike:
It's getting behind the scenes, which is digging into process and digging into data strategies. So a follow-up to that, do you regularly share that, and would you recommend admins regularly do that as well? Jennifer Cole:
Yes, I would actually. And it's funny, as an admin, we're often tagged as being a tiny bit controlling in our orgs and love everything to be precise and buttoned up. But I think it actually gains business trust when we crack open the org in setup for them and they can see how we click around because there's no risk. If someone wants to join the admin team and they're that curious and inspired by what they see in setup, oh my gosh, come on over. But at the same breath, admins can gain so much trust, I feel, from their business when they expose what they're doing.
Because if you think about it, admins are going into the business every day and saying, "Show me your process. How are you doing it? Let me see what you're doing." We're putting our business under the microscope to improve it. I don't think there's any harm in the reverse. It just helps build that mutual trust and relationship of sharing how to build something and what the possibilities are or are not. And I encourage it. I think it would be great. Actually, I encourage my team to do it. They do it in front of our users all the time, and it's been a positive experience. Mike:
Well, I can't think of a better way to wrap up the conversation than having brought it completely back around on us where we're being as transparent with our processes, we're asking the business to be with us while we create the technology to support it. Thanks for coming back on the pod and sharing your thoughts on this and giving us data strategies to work on. Jennifer Cole:
Thanks, Mike. It was really great. Mike:
I'm excited. Jennifer Cole:
Me too. I'm excited [inaudible 00:32:28] admins do, have fun out there. Mike:
Well, I don't know about you, but I was thinking of a thousand different times that I needed to have a conversation between different departments so that they understood the importance of putting fields in. And really, it was interesting, after the call, Jennifer and I talked a little bit because so much of what we do when we sit down with our users is, "Well, how are we going to document this? What are we going to put in Salesforce?" And we get wrapped up with what we're going to put in Salesforce, which we should, but we forget to talk of why.
And that came up in this conversation is why are we putting this down? Why is this a critical stage? Why is it critical that we capture this data at this point? And then who's going to do something with it to make us a better organization? When talking sales, it's not just shipping out the widget as fast as we can, but maybe as efficiently as we can and understanding different parts of our organization so that we can capture data. And I got to agree with Jennifer, boy, it was such a good point, having all of your users understand where the data is coming from and where the data that they create goes, where in the process they sit, and having those individuals meet with each other. I think that was such a great insight that Jennifer brought to this episode.
I hope you enjoyed listening to it. And of course, if you did, you can share it with your friends. Just go ahead and click on those three dots. There's usually three dots in just about every application now, and you can share it on social. I would so appreciate that. And if you're looking for resources or anything that we mentioned in the episode itself, show notes are right there. They're also on our website, admin.salesforce.com, which has got everything you need to read, blog posts, other podcasts you can listen to, and a transcript of this show. And of course, you can join the conversation in the Admin Trailblazer group, which is in the Trailblazer Community, that is also a link in the show notes. A lot of people talk in data quality and process there too. All right, so until next week, we'll see you in the cloud.
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Thu, 1 August 2024
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Elizabeth Awad, Associate Product Manager for Prompt Builder at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about how you can use Prompt Builder to simplify users’ daily tasks by integrating generative AI moments powered by prompt templates into their workflows. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Elizabeth Awad. What’s the difference between Einstein Copilot and Prompt Builder? There’s been a lot of buzz around Prompt Builder these days, so I was excited to get Liz Awad on the pod to pick her brain about it. She’s a product manager on the Prompt Builder team, so you could say she knows some things. The first question I had for her is one I hear frequently from the community: What’s the difference between Einstein Copilot and Prompt Builder? “They go hand in hand,” Liz says, “the prompts that you create in Prompt Builder can be connected to custom actions in Copilot.” In other words, Prompt Builder is where you as the admin create custom prompts to write a sales email or summarize a case, and Einstein Copilot is what allows your end users to invoke those prompts. Practice your prompts We’ve had more than a few guests suggest that you jump on an LLM to practice prompting but I wanted to know from Liz, specifically, what she’s found helpful. She had a really interesting answer, which was to try to get ChatGPT to write a birthday text to her mom. If you think about it, that’s a perfect use case for practicing writing better prompts. It’s pretty simple in terms of information but it’s tricky to get the right tone. More importantly, you probably have a good sense of what sounds right and what doesn’t. And so when you give adjustments, you instantly know how well they worked. Liz points out that this process is what people mean when they talk about “grounding” a prompt. It’s the extra bits of information you give an AI to adjust the response, like “That sounds too formal” or, “Here are three other texts I’ve sent my mom.” Prompt templates you can use in Salesforce right now As a reminder, there are four prompt template types that you can use in Salesforce right now. They are: -
Sales email -
Field generation -
Record summary -
Flex templates Josh Birk and Raveesh Raina went over all of this in detail in their episode last month, so I’ll link below. However, Liz wanted to draw special attention to a new addition to the flex prompt template, which is the ability to use free text as an input. That means you can use something like a chat transcript or a case summary to ground your prompt. It’s super flexible, and the sky’s the limit. There’s so much more great stuff from Liz about what you can do with Prompt Builder and how she approaches her role as a PM, so be sure to listen to the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to hear more from the Salesforce Admins Podcast. Podcast swag Learn more Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike:
Earlier this year, we talked with Melissa Scalercio about Prompt Builder, because she was on the customer side and she had some pretty neat things to say about how they were using Prompt Builder. You can go back into the Salesforce archives there to listen to that episode.
In case you're not familiar, Prompt Builder allows you to simplify users' daily tasks by integrating generative AI moments powered by prompt templates into their workflow. It's really cool. You get to bind a field and put sparkles on it. That's what it's called literally, sparkles. I wanted to talk to one of the product managers that is working on Prompt Builder. That is Liz Awad, who is based in New York. She is helping build the future of Prompt Builder. She not only gives us some really useful insights into Prompt Builder and how she's seeing other customers use it, but also into what's coming with Prompt Builder, and you may have already seen it. Then, fun fact, we get to learn a hobby. I bet it's one maybe that most of you do. I've seen it on a ton of TV shows. But I'm not going to tell you because you have to listen to the episode. With that, let's get Liz on the podcast.
Liz, welcome to the podcast. Liz Awad:
Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Mike:
Well, I'm excited to talk about Prompt Builder. We've talked about Prompt Builder in the past, with Melissa, earlier. I wanted to hear from somebody that's actually working on the product and doing some really fun stuff, because not only is Prompt Builder a really cool tool for admins to use. We're seeing that in all of our AI Now tours. But also, there's a lot of really cool features coming as well.
Look, I'm getting the cart in front of the horse, like I always do. Let's start off with you. Liz, how did you get to Salesforce and start owning Prompt Builder? Liz Awad:
Sure. I've been at Salesforce a little over a year now. I'm actually part of a rotational product management program here at Salesforce. Previously, I was on Sales Cloud, and I was working on adoption. Which is actually admin relevant, as a new feature on Sales Cloud is launching soon called Sales Cloud Go. I was part of that development. Then I knew my manager, Avantika. She's the one that pulled me into Prompt Builder, where I am now. Mike:
Wow. Liz Awad:
I've been working here for around five months now. I'm very excited. It's been a great journey. Things have changed really fast, as you know, in the large language model space. There's new models all of the time. We are, like you said, launching some amazing new features. Mike:
Yeah. Just trying to keep up with ... I remember when Einstein came out and we suddenly had to learn large language models as part of our nomenclature. Then now, we're having to learn generative AI, and prompts, and grounding. My most fun word to say is hallucinations. Because you know, hallucinations, what could go wrong there? But that's a different podcast that you can listen about.
Prompt Builder, what are exciting things that you can dug into and are happy to work on out of the gate? We'll preface that by saying tell me how Prompt Builder is different than Copilot. Liz Awad:
Yes, great question. Prompt Builder is a low code prompt management tool. This basically allows you to create reusable prompts that are being sent to these large language models. Prompts are just instructions that you send so that the model outputs the correct text.
The way that it's different than Copilot, the way that we view it actually is they go hand-in-hand. The prompts that you create using Prompt Builder can actually be connected to custom actions in Copilot. Then within Copilot, when you ask Copilot a question, it can invoke the prompt that you have created. They're different in that Prompt Builder is this tool that allows you to create the custom prompts. Copilot is maybe one area when your end users actually invoke the prompts. Mike:
Yeah. Copilot's a little more conversational. Liz Awad:
Exactly. Mike:
Yeah. That's also one of the things that, as a former Salesforce administrator, I love about Prompt Builder is it's just a little sparkle button that my users have to press and they get magic. Liz Awad:
Exactly. Mike:
It doesn't depend on their ability to write a good prompt. Liz Awad:
No. It's the admins, now you all become prompt engineers. I will say you do need to spend some time reworking your prompts, testing your prompts. In Prompt Builder, you can even change the models. Certain models are better at writing sales emails than others. Depending on your use case, that Prompt Builder workspace is really where you can test. Just so, like you said, your end users just get to see magic. Mike:
Yeah. Let me ask. What do you do to get better at writing prompts? Liz Awad:
I was introduced to the concept of prompt engineering, like the rest of the world, when ChatGPT came out in November 2022. The first thing I did was just go to the website and start asking it questions that I knew the answers to already. Or I would be able to tell that's a good response, and that's a bad response. It was as simple as, "Write a text to my mom, wishing her a happy birthday." When the LLM responds, it used maybe a formal tone, or something that I personally would never send to my mom. Then I'm like, "Make it sound more casual. I'm very close to my mom, so make sure you include that." That idea of editing a prompt, and trying to have it fit your tone and your style can be used in an enterprise context as well.
The other thing to think about is, when you're telling ChatGPT or your LLM more information, that's called grounding. That's giving more data to the LLM about the type of response that you want back. All of those things are really important in prompt engineering. Mike:
Yeah. Well, I'll be honest with you. The first time I ever heard the term grounding was when I was doing the Data Now workshop. We talked about building a prompt in Prompt Builder. I think the very first line was, "Acting as," and then you could fill in $user.organization, however that worked. It was literally meant to pull the running user, which is you. I thought, "Oh, that totally makes sense." Then you could pull in, "Here's different information." Because I think back to the way you brought in writing prompts, the rest of the world was just like, "Oh, neat. With ChatGPT I just ask it questions." But here, we can actually pull in and say, "No, I want you to go into my Salesforce org and really pull that data out," as opposed to just asking it for a text for your mom. Liz Awad:
Exactly. That's what really makes it powerful, is that it's dynamic. What you said here is you can think of it as a variable, or a field, that's user.name. When that prompt is invoked at runtime, that is replaced with the actual end user's running the name in Salesforce. That prevents you from having to create multiple iterations of prompts.
When we say grounding, all we're really saying is data. It's just a fancy way of saying injecting more data into your prompts. Mike:
Right. Liz Awad:
With Prompt Builder, that data can come from a wide variety of places, not just your CRM. It can come from Data Cloud. You could use a flow to inject data. It can get really powerful, which is really exciting. Mike:
If you think about it, if you really wanted to go back in time, this is where a time machine would help to tell our parents, "If I'm grounded, it just means I've got the data. Thanks." Liz Awad:
Yeah, exactly. Mike:
"You're grounded for a month." No, I'm grounded for life because I've got data. That's how you get more grounded. Just realized it, that dawned on me.
One thing that I did for the longest time. I love using the little sticky notes feature on my Mac. When I would write a good prompt for ChatGPT and it would turn something out, it was like, "Oh, awesome." I would copy that and I'd hang onto it. Then I remember sharing stuff with my team early on. They're like, "Oh, how did you do that?" I would share the prompt with them, the text. Liz Awad:
Yes. Mike:
Then they would plug that in, and they would get something different. I realized early on, with AI, the learning curve for AI is everybody's different, as opposed to when we were trying to learn Flow Builder. When Flow came out, the admin created the flow, and then the record, or whatever the action was, worked the same for everybody. Then as I started looking at AI I was like, "Boy, this is going to be tough for users," because it really depended more on what is that end user's ability to write a good prompt. Or how do I disseminate good prompts to my users?
That all changed for me when I saw Prompt Builder because we can put all that in there, which means the end user gets a solid experience every single time without having to be good at writing prompts. Right? Liz Awad:
Exactly. The end user doesn't need to be the prompt engineer because, as an admin, you are created those instructions every time and it's following that template.
Now I will say you can have different outputs because it's generative. Even if you're invoking the same instructions, the response might be a little different every time you call the large language model. But it should be somewhat the same every time you call. Mike:
Right. Obviously, if it was the same, then it'd just be like email templates. Liz Awad:
Exactly. I do want to say, now that you've brought up email templates, just a small use case or a small story. Mike:
Yeah. Liz Awad:
One of our customers was telling us that they used to use the email templates. Now they're using the sales email template in Prompt Builder. Because it's generative, they're delivery rate was much higher. As in Gmail, Outlook, and these email clients wouldn't mark it as scam. It would actually deliver in whoever they were contacting, that inbox.
That was really interesting for us to hear. That was the first time we had thought about that metric of tracking delivery rate. And how, when you're using generative AI, it's not a pattern, it's not a template. Those words can change every time you're calling the large language model, with the same theme throughout. Mike:
Right. Liz Awad:
That was really interesting for us to hear on the product management team. Mike:
No, I like that. That actually leads into the next question I had. Which was where are you seeing admins deploy Prompt Builder the most? Liz Awad:
It's a great question. It really depends on industry and use case. But we've seen a lot of field generation templates, which is what you described, where your end users see that magic button. You use a prompt template to fill in a field on a record. Mike:
Okay. Liz Awad:
We've also seen a lot of sales emails use cases. Case summarization use cases. It's really across the board. The best part is, you as an admin get to be creative with it. Because you can really think of 100 plus use cases, that's why we have flex template to allow you to customize and put in as many objects, or even now strings or free text, as input to a prompt. Mike:
Tell me more about the templates. I forget, there's four types of templates? Liz Awad:
Yes, there are four types of templates. Sales email. Mike:
Okay. Liz Awad:
Field generation. Record summary. And flex templates. Mike:
Flex sounds the coolest. Liz Awad:
Yes. Flex, it's in the namesake. It's allowing you to create those custom templates where you can call an invokable action, you can use flows.
One feature that we just released is actually called string inputs or free text. Where, using a flex template, you can have text as your only input. Previously, we required templates to be associated with objects. But we heard from customers, "Hey, what if I have a transcript of a chat and I only want to use that as my grounding data?" Well, that's why we just released this, actually this month. It's very exciting. Mike:
That's interesting. Tell me more about that. Because I think I saw that in one of the release readiness' that you did. Liz Awad:
Yes. The use case here is that, if you want to invoke a template from a flow, or maybe using Apex, and all you want as the input is just text itself ... Another example could be an agent gathers a question from a user in a chat, and you want to use that question as input into the prompt. Previously, you would still have to associate that template with a record, which would just be wasted time. You're not actually using that record as grounding data. But now, you can just have that template with the input as a user question, for example. Mike:
Interesting. Yeah. No, I like that. I think, in the earlier podcast we talked to Melissa, she was using the sales email stuff a lot. I'm curious, do you have any insight ... Maybe this is just me, and I've worked in these overly micromanaged organizations where marketing needs to see every period, and comma, and I that's dotted, which is why they loved email templates so much. You mentioned sales templates. Sales email templates. How are marketers adjusting to AI, where it's not word-for-word every single time? Liz Awad:
That's a really good question. I just want to point out that we still recommend that a human's eyes are on the responses from the large language models before they're sent out. We don't recommend automated generation and sending just yet. Primarily for that reason, just to make sure that either a marketer or a sales rep understands exactly what is being sent to their customers. It's really just used as a tool to help, like an assistant, as opposed to replacing that job of writing the email. It gives you a baseline for you to go in and potentially edit or add certain things that you want, depending on the customer.
Now, like you said, some organizations are stricter than others. Maybe they'll, in their company, have a process which is you still use the sales email template to start, but then someone either needs to check it before it's sent. Or the admin can actually go into the audit trail and see all the generated emails, and someone can review those and make sure that that pass is their standard of quality. Mike:
Sure, sure. Yeah. No, I like that. Plus, you could probably include some stylistic cues in the prompt when you're building that as an admin as well. Liz Awad:
Definitely. That is recommended. Mike:
Write in your voice and tone. Liz Awad:
Yes, voice and tone is definitely recommended. You really want to be as specific as possible. You can even give an example of a great email in your instructions. Mike:
Oh! Well, that works out nice. Liz Awad:
"This is an example of a great email we would want to send to a customer." Mike:
Interesting. I like that. There's so many areas now, I think of Salesforce, to talk about with stakeholders as an admin. Not just features that are coming out, but it's also ... I know working with sales teams, thinking of I've always had that sales manager that would come up to me and say, "So-and-so writes great emails. How do we make everybody a great email writer?" Prompt Builder now has that ability. You can work with that great salesperson to get some of their great email ideas, and use those as some initial early prompts, that you can then disseminate to all of your sales team. Which, to me, I'm sure that salesperson doesn't like that. Salespeople are a little competitive that way. Liz Awad:
Yes, that's interesting. That's true, I never thought about that. Mike:
As a product manager, I guess, admins do a lot of product managing. Is there any advice that you would give that you've learned in your year or so at Salesforce that would help them manage the onslaught of new features or how you balance priorities? Liz Awad:
Definitely. I think the biggest skill that's important in being a great PM is just communication, and over communication. And ensuring that everyone is aligned on not only what the priorities are, but why they are prioritized how they are. Because when you explain, "This is the use case, this is the problem, and this is the solution, and this is why it's important," then you really get that alignment.
As far as how to understand what's being released at Salesforce and all the new features, that is a beast within itself. But that's why we have release notes. That's why we have all of the help docs. I would encourage you to even engage with your AEs and your SEs to learn more and inquire. As product managers on Prompt Builder and Copilot, we are actually aiming to talk to our customers as much as we can, because we learn from you all. Because you all are the ones that are engaging with the tool every day. That's also what helps us prioritize, is engaging with customers. Mike:
Yeah, absolutely. Too often, as an admin, I couldn't communicate enough with all the features that were coming out.
Thanks for coming on the podcast, Liz. I will end by saying it's always fun to know, outside of managing Prompt Builder, which is what admins love, if there's anything fun you do as a hobby? Liz Awad:
I've recently picked up, not recently, but in the past year or two, pickleball. Mike:
Okay. Liz Awad:
But I'm based in New York, so that requires me to fight over pickleball courts as there's limited space. It's actually turned into quite an expensive hobby recently, because they charge per hour and per court. But I love it. I grew up playing competitive tennis. So this has just been my outlet as I can play tennis and racket sports, but not be too harsh on myself.
Now my brother thinks that pickleball is an abomination. There's really two groups of thought on that coming from tennis players. But I love it and it's been really fun. Mike:
It's about the size of a tennis court, right? From what I know. Liz Awad:
No, it's actually much smaller. Mike:
Okay. But about? Liz Awad:
About, about, about. Mike:
But much smaller. Okay. Okay. Liz Awad:
Small enough that- Mike:
My neighbors set up pickleball in their driveway. Liz Awad:
Yeah. If anyone wants to challenge me to a pickleball game, I'm ready. Mike:
You should set that up. Do a pickleball tournament in New York. That's what we should have is a pickleball court at Dreamforce. Liz Awad:
That would be amazing. Maybe I should go talk to the event team. Mike:
That would be low impact sort of thing. But there's shoes, right? There's pickleball shoes. I know that you have to have a special paddle. Is it called a paddle? Liz Awad:
Yes. Mike:
Or is it called a racket? Liz Awad:
I believe it's called a paddle. Mike:
Okay. Liz Awad:
I'm actually not sure. Yeah. Mike:
It kind of looks like a ping-pong paddle, just a little bit bigger. Liz Awad:
Exactly. It is called a paddle. Mike:
Okay. Liz Awad:
You can get fancy with it. But you can go out in sneakers and be totally fine. You just have to watch your ankles. Mike:
Sure. Yeah. Boy, I don't know. Well, good luck with that because unfortunately, in New York, it's probably also hard to have an apartment any kind of size at which you could practice pickleball. You should take up ping-pong. It's New York size friendly. Liz Awad:
Yes, exactly. Well, thank you so much for having me on. Mike:
Absolutely. Thanks for being on, Liz.
Okay, I feel like I've been on a lot of television shows lately that have featured pickleball. Am I right or am I wrong? It's just everywhere. I think there was even some sort of deal on pickleball equipment on one of the morning shows I was watching. Good for people playing pickleball. I don't know, do you play pickleball? I don't. But my mom wants to play pickleball. We'll see how that goes. I do think it would be fun to have a pickleball court at Dreamforce. Don't you? We should ask for that.
Anyway, I thought that was a great, fun discussion with Liz. I think it's pretty cool, the stuff that admins can do without writing a single line of code in Prompt Builder. I wish I had this when I was a Salesforce admin. Boy, it'd be really cool. Anyway, if you enjoyed this discussion, I did, I'd love if you could just share it with one person. If you're listening in iTunes, or if you're listening in Apple Podcasts, or any of the podcast apps, usually all you have to do is click the three buttons. There's three buttons somewhere, you get a little arrow. You could share it on social, you could share it with your friends. You could text it, post it to Facebook, LinkedIn. I would appreciate any of those to help spread the word of the podcast. Of course, you can always give me feedback on the podcast if you go to iTunes. I'd love to hear what you think.
Now if you're looking for any of the resources, links to anything that we mentioned, or just great blog post reading and podcast listening in general, that is on admin.salesforce.com. Including a transcript of this show. You can join with other admins in our Admin Trailblazer community. That, of course, is in the Admin Trailblazer group. I'll include the link to that in the show notes. Until next week, we'll see you in the cloud.
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